Posted in Uncategorized

Does “only God know the heart”? Or are there cases when we do too?

By Elizabeth Prata

Peoples’ responses to calling out a false teacher often (depressingly often) involves a statement such as this:

“You don’t know their heart!”

God is sovereign. God knows the heart. But there are specific times that we do too.

If a teacher’s doctrine has been proven false by comparing it with the Bible, then we DO know their heart! The Bible tells us this. Only God knows the hearts of the people, but if their teaching is not of the Lord, then the God who sees hearts has exposed those hearts to us by the verses of His word!

Their hearts are full of deceit. Colossians 2:8
Their hearts are filled with their own appetites. Romans 16:17-18
 For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Matthew 12:34 
Their hearts are disguised with light. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
Their hearts are full of greed. 2 Peter 2:3
Their hearts are ravenous. Matthew 7:15.
Their hearts are inwardly full of sensuality. Jude 1:4
Their hearts are full of secrets, such as destructive heresies. 2 Peter 2:1
Their hearts are full of intent to exploit. 2 Peter 2:3
Their hearts are full of fleshly passions. 2 Timothy 4:3
Their hearts are puffed up with conceit. 1 Timothy 6:4
Their heart understands nothing. 1 Timothy 6:4
Their hearts are cunning and crafty. Ephesians 4:14
Their hearts serve the creature. Romans 1:25
Their hearts are slaves of corruption. 2 Peter 2:19.
Their hearts deny the Master who bought them. 2 Peter 2:1
Their hearts prophesy lies. Jeremiah 23:26

People undiscerningly reject discernment and accept false teachings, even after confirmation by Bible verse, by thinking that a person can utter blasphemies but still have “a good heart”. No. Do we think that a person can utter falsities or even blasphemies from a pure heart? No, of course not. Out of the heart the mouth speaks.

God does know the heart, that’s true, but He has shown us the heart of the false teacher in His word. He taught us this in His word for the purpose of being mature, discerning, and so we can learn for ourselves in truth and also teach the younger to be edified and strong.

The End Time Blog Podcast Season 2, Episode 276

Posted in theology

Reformation Day is a good day to talk about the Blood on Beth Moore’s Hands

By Elizabeth Prata

An essay in three sections.

  1. The Reformation and what it stood for
  2. Beth Moore and her failure to teach the truth about Catholicism
  3. What the Bible teaches about leaders failing to preach the true word, and encouragement for those who do

1. What was the Reformation about?

October 31, Reformation Day, is a day when Christians bring to remembrance the old Catholic priest, Martin Luther. His inquiry into the scriptures, his spiritual angst over indulgences (a gross monetization of the faith), dismissal of the theology around purgatory, and his disappointment and despair after his trip to Rome, caused him on October 31, 1517 (traditionally accepted date) to nail 95 Theses to the All Saints’ Church in anticipation of a theological discussion. These theses became the foundation for the ensuing Protestant Reformation. We have been discussing ever since.

In his theses, Martin Luther had said thatIt is vain to trust in salvation by indulgence letters, even though the indulgence commissary, or even the pope, were to offer his soul as security.” (Thesis #52).

He also said, “They are the enemies of Christ and the pope who forbid altogether the preaching of the Word of God in some churches in order that indulgences may be preached in others.” (#53).

And, in speaking against the gross accumulation of personal wealth by the Pope, that “The true treasure of the church is the most holy gospel of the glory and grace of God.” (#62).

The Roman Catholic Church teaches and preaches heresy. Anyone believing the doctrines of Rome is likely not saved. If they do come to true repentance in the true faith, they soon leave the Roman Catholic Church (RCC), because it is not spiritually profitable to remain. The Holy Spirit who indwells the new believer, would not let them stay.

Ex-Catholic and now fervent Protestant Evangelist Mike Gendron, writes,

“Catholic salvation is based on Jesus plus Mary, faith plus works, grace plus merit, Scripture plus tradition and the blood of Jesus plus purgatory. Catholics do not know that any addition to the Gospel is a denial of the sufficiency of Christ (Heb. 7:25). Any addition to the Gospel also nullifies the saving grace of God, which is the only means by which God saves sinners (Romans 11:6). Catholics, who are victims of this deception, need to be evangelized with the true Gospel of grace.”

ABCs of Evangelizing Catholics

2. Beth Moore’s failure to teach the truth about Catholicism

Beth Moore’s 87 year old mother-in-law died a few weeks ago. Any death is sad, but when the person is likely a non-believer, it’s heart rending. The obituary says, “Mary and her husband John were lifelong, devoted Catholics.” If Mary believed RCC dogma, then she did not believe in the necessary elements of the faith.

Many of the 70 million Catholics in America were born into their religion and have never examined their faith through the lens of Scripture“. ~Mike Gendron

Beth’s mother-in-law Mary Moore was devoted to errant RC dogma. It’s a tragedy that she’s likely not dwelling in peace now or forever. But another tragedy is her daughter-in-law Beth, who proclaimed with certainty that Mary Moore,

“having entered the holy presence” said, “We are greatly consoled she lived to be 87 and is now not only with Jesus but with the two children she’d buried long ago and grieved deeply and daily.”

No. It’s a tragedy that Beth has compromised on this issue, declaring that a “devoted Catholic” has entered the holy presence of God. I hope Mary Moore has, but only due to last minute repentance in true faith. That post about her mother-in-law’s death on Instagram by Beth Moore got over 21,000 likes, and Moore’s Instagram account has over half a million followers. Beth’s influence and reach could have seen Catholics as a mission field.

But she didn’t. She doesn’t. She never has.

Beth’s own errant doctrine, compromising man-pleasing, or just cowardice, for many years has instead ignored the souls of millions she otherwise could have shared the truth with. There is blood on her hands, sadly. No one who believes Rome will see glory, except on Judgment Day, when the Lord will say “Depart from me, I never knew you!” and the same to false teachers like Moore who poison the faith and confuse the naïve.

Catholics are a mission field. They do not need an influential celebrity evangelical to assure them in their error! However, I and others have warned for over a decade now, that Moore teaches that Catholics are part of the true faith. She taught from her 2002 ‘study’, “Believing God” that Jesus lifted her to another dimension and gave her a view of the global church “as he sees it” which included the Catholic Church. She used an example of various denominations with signs to illustrate this ‘vision’, naming the Catholic ‘denomination’ of St. Anne’s Catholic Church. Her mother-in-law was a member of a church named St. Anne Catholic Church, by the way.

In this screen shot from a video, Moore is teaching from her 2002 ‘Believing God’ study that a Catholic church is simply another denomination along with Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran churches etc

In her 2006 Catholic-influenced Mystical DVD “Be Still,” Moore spoke of lines between denominations being erased, insinuating the lines were between Catholic and Protestant. In effect, she was denying the need for the Reformation and rejecting that severe doctrinal differences separate Protestants and Catholics. She said,

“You know, one of the things that time gives us is that it erases the lines in between people so many different sections of the people of God. Because many years later it doesn’t matter any longer that this person was of this practice in the Christian faith and this person of another. Time somehow blurs those lines and we are profoundly moved by the historical narratives of all their lives, of so great a cloud of witnesses; that we can look back on and see what kept them running the race, what kept them running toward the face of Christ at the end of that finish line.”

In 2012 Moore participated in and led an arena full of impressionable youth in a RCC mystical practice called Lectio Divina at the Passion Conference. Clearly, Beth Moore believes that Catholicism is part of the faith, or if she doesn’t believe it, she acts like it is.

In 2020 Moore didn’t insinuate, she outright called Roman Catholicism a denomination of the faith.

I can understand that living with in-laws who are staunch Catholics is hard when you’re an alleged evangelical. I know they scowlingly objected to her quick and ignominious wedding in an off-white dress (Beth’s words). I understand the tensions when the in-laws remained Catholics all their lives, even when moving from Houston to Tomball, changing Churches from one Catholic church to another in a declaration of their continued loyalty to Rome.

I can understand that Beth’s husband, having been raised Catholic and remained attached to it throughout the marriage, was a hard to reach mission field; Moore has often publicly complained about her husband’s lack of interest in her Baptist church or the things of God, like not being inclined to study the word, or leafing through fishing magazines if forced to come where truth is being taught.

And in 2022, confidently writing on her Instagram to half a million followers that her Catholic M-I-L is in the presence of Jesus in heaven.

Opposing satan’s doctrines often brings tension, rejection, and difficulty. Instead of using her reach if not for her family (who knows if she did, God knows) then for at least the women she draws in to her public events and studies. Yet Moore consistently affirms Rome by her affirmations of Catholics being true believers and simply another denomination of the true faith. But it isn’t.

3. What the Bible teaches about leaders failing to preach the true word, and encouragement for those who do

“And now behold, I know that all of you, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, will no longer see my face. Therefore, I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all people. For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God.” (Acts 20:25-27).

That’s the Apostle Paul speaking. Other translations say ‘I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God’. As Paul prepared to leave the believers in Ephesus, his conscience was clear. Why? Barnes’ Notes says,

“‘I have not kept back’; I have not been deterred by fear, by the desire of popularity, by the fact that the doctrines of the gospel are unpalatable to people, from declaring them fully. The proper meaning of the word translated here, “I have not shunned” ὑπεστειλάμην hupesteilamēn, is “to disguise any important truth; to withdraw it from public view; to decline publishing it from fear, or an apprehension of the consequences.” –End Barnes’ Notes Commentary

Paul said the same in Acts 18:6, But when they opposed and insulted him, he shook out his garments and told them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.

Hebrews 13:17 reminds us all of the weighty task that leaders have. They will give an account regarding the souls they’d had under their charge. “Obey your leaders and submit to them—for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account—so that they may do this with joy, not groaning; for this would be unhelpful for you.”

While we learners have an obligation to submit, the leaders/pastors/teachers have an obligation to preach boldly. Paul and Barnabas did, even facing down a hissing mob of Jews who were blasphemously contradicting their teaching. (Acts 13:46). They must offer the entire teaching. An incomplete gospel is no gospel at all. But the whole counsel of God (with nothing added!) is sufficient to save! What glorious Good News!

Finally, we forget, or ignore, the evilness of false teaching. Spurgeon never wavered on proclaiming the truth and never shrank from denouncing the false. He said of the Catholic mass-

“The mass is a mass of abominations, a mass of hell’s own concocting, a crying insult against the Lord of glory. It is not to be spoken of in any terms but those of horror and destestation. Whenever I think of another sacrifice for sin being offered, by whomever it may be presented, I can only regard it as an infamous insult to the perfection of the Savior’s work.” ~ Charles H. Spurgeon

For the leaders who are faithful, you have aspired to a noble task (1 Timothy 3:1), and no doubt if done with persistence, humility, and in truth, will hear our Lord say “Well done good and faithful servant… Enter into the joy of the Lord!” (Matthew 25:21). What a day that will be!

Further Resources

Mary Moore Obituary

Is Roman Catholicism biblical? (article, Grace to You)

Evangelizing Roman Catholics with Mike Gendron (video)

The Reformation and the Men Behind it (article, Ligonier)

Posted in theology

Discerning Joyce Meyer: reply to commenter

Elizabeth Prata

When I make dogmatic comments on various social media about this or that person being a false teacher, invariably I receive push-back. It usually consists of one of two opinions- either they use ad hominem to accuse me of being critical, judgmental, or otherwise something negative. Or, they say they had a positive experience following the teacher and due to the experience they had, it proves the teacher is true. A sort of ‘I know s/he isn’t false, because s/he helped me!’

Either type of comment displaying zeal without wisdom also usually include some old chestnuts recycled from undiscerning person to undiscerning person. They include, Judge not, don’t touch God’s anointed, did you go to her … and so on.

I say zeal without wisdom and undiscerning, because these commenters know just enough of what is in the Bible but not at all what it means.

Continue reading “Discerning Joyce Meyer: reply to commenter”
Posted in discernment, theology

A few thoughts on discernment

By Elizabeth Prata

I wrote last week that I’d tweeted something about a certain false teacher’s lifestyle, and the tsunami of hate immediately came rolling toward me. It didn’t let up for three days.

As per usual I was called hateful, evil, a troll, jealous, self-righteous, covetous, judgmental, and more. That’s the usual stuff.

I always try to learn from any experiences, especially experiences in contending for the truth. Continue reading “A few thoughts on discernment”

Posted in discernment, theology

Forget ‘What color is your parachute?’, Beth Moore wants to know the color of the hands that wrote the books on your shelf

By Elizabeth Prata

Just as our minds can’t conceive of how MUCH Jesus loves His own, we can’t conceive of how deep sin will go. (1 Corinthians 2:9). Just when we think sin can’t get any worse, it does. (Genesis 6:5).

False teaching is a plague on the church. It destroys the sinner. It hinders the Christian’s walk. It makes a blot on Jesus’s name. It should not be ignored.

For many years Beth Moore has been propagating false teaching. It’s always been there. It’s always been that way, if one cared to look.

variation from the true Gospel is devastating. It’s of satan, and we know satan comes to steal, kill, and destroy. (John 10:10). It matters not that the package it comes in seems ‘pretty close’ to true doctrine. So what that an N almost looks like an M. It’s not and it alters the word it’s in completely. Moon isn’t Noon. Mail isn’t Nail.

Remove the second ‘b’ from Bible and you get bile. So, pretty close isn’t good enough.

Beth Moore has been twisting the faith for almost 30 years. She is a type of Jezebel spoken against by Jesus in Revelation 2:20. Her mysticism, direct revelation, Bible twisting, lavish lifestyle and more, has caught many an unwary women into her webs of lies. That is what false teachers do, and she is extremely successful at it. Rather than be stricken by Jesus, He has graciously allowed to gather momentum, influence, and followers for all this time. Only Jesus knows how long He will allow her to continue, and whether her comeuppance will happen before her death as well as after. But for now, it is the duty of those who see the N in the stream of M’s to call attention in clarion shouts that this thing is not like the others.

Though one knows God is sovereign, one can still be alarmed that Moore’s power and influence is only growing as time goes on. Of late, in addition to the usual Bible travesties, Beth Moore’s advancement along the wide road has picked up some additional new litter by the side of the way. The litter is wokeness, relevance, and attention to worldly systems.

Perhaps feeling that there were no new theological worlds left to conquer, or perhaps the Bible world was growing stale for her, or maybe she just needed new friends, Moore has plunged into expounding on new vistas having nothing to do with Jesus. As Kris Williams (@Kdubtru ) said on Twitter this week, unrelated to Beth Moore,

Church history has repeatedly and clearly proven one thing: Once the highest view of Scripture is abandoned by any theologian, group, denomination, or church, the downhill slide in both its theology and practice is inevitable.

If one has tendencies to chronicle and track these things, (as I do) one can see that Moore’s downhill slide into ‘wokeness’ began earlier this year. In March to be exact.

Her non-sleepiness was followed by a sudden venture into political waters that same week, with this tweet,

This political awakening was followed by successive and incessant tweets and blogs taking on social justice, racism, and just rebuking the church wholesale. Perhaps you’ve noticed a distinct absence of Bible verses. There are references to biblical principles, and mentions of the Bible, but very few verses and hardly addresses at all. I’ve asked her about this. No response. Her social media is used quite often to bemoan secular woes now.

In April the MLK50 Conference happened. Moore was asked to be a speaker. Moore suddenly ‘woke’ to racial issues and began promoting them as a substitute for Gospel issues.

Moore’s foray into political ‘relevance’ was followed by the famous “Letter to My Brothers” in May of this year which accused basically every Christian man of not liking Moore and thus were misogynists hating on all women since the beginning of the church.

June saw a surge of interest in putting Moore up for president of the largest Protestant denomination in the world, the Southern Baptist Convention. Along the way discussions about women’s egalitarianism, social justice, and a host of other secular, fleshly issues ensued.

By October of this year the powerhouse secular media had taken note of Moore. Both The Atlantic and the Washington Post published lengthy stories about her. New vistas indeed. The Atlantic talked about how she is “taking on Trump”, and the Post talked about how she is “changing the face of evangelical leadership.”

Moore talks about how she stayed quiet for decades but now must speak up, she must. A cynic would say that she has amassed enough worldly goods and influence to risk stepping into secular arenas to conquer, and this seems to be working for her. Maybe the risk wasn’t so large after all.  In the spirit if the breathless titles on the TV show The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, here are three titles regarding Beth Moore’s latest delinquencies.

Beth Moore Challenges Da Man!
(But Metha Leanne Todd pushes back)

This past May’s “Letter to My Brothers” Moore takes exception, on behalf of all evangelical women whether they have asked her to or not, to the “way we women have been treated” in the visible church. And the way Moore herself has been treated, and according to Moore, it ain’t good. There’s a gulf, a huge gulf fixed, between male leaders and women leaders, and that gulf is filled to the brim with disrespect, maltreatment, and perhaps most mystifying of all, ‘peculiarities accompanying female leadership’. Clearly, this must stop.

Her letter did not go unnoticed. Not by the bigwigs, nor by the little people, like this articulate CNA CareGiver in Texas-

The rebuke went on, the above is just an excerpt. Full post here.

Hypocrisy Moment:

From Moore’s Open Letter to Brothers:

A few years ago I told my friend, Ed Stetzer, that, whenever he hears the news that I’m on my deathbed, he’s to elbow his way through my family members to interview me about what it’s been like to be a female leader in the conservative Evangelical world.

Interesting that a religious teacher who claims to have been a slave to Christ for 30+ years, says that when she’s on her deathbed, her only thought will be talking about herself and her life as a “leader,” and not the coming glories she will experience because of the cross and Christ.

Beth Moore battles misogyny!
(But Kathleen Peck pushes back)

Pushing hard on the ‘women oppressed’ mantra, this month Moore was featured in a lengthy podcast interview: Beth Moore on Misogyny: The blurb goes- “Moore reflects on her journey as a woman in ministry, how she developed an authentic style of teaching that ministers to thousands of women, and her battle against misogyny in the church.”

It is an encouragement to see women like Ms Todd above and Ms Peck below, with courage and insights pushing back against false teachers like Moore.


Of Interest-
Wretched Radio’s report on Al Mohler’s take on a woman for President of the SBC (11 minutes)
Friel quote from that episode: “Liberalism always starts with women’s issues. It’s the easiest one to get compromise on.”

Hypocrisy Moment:

It’s interesting that Moore, President of her own Corporation, earning a multi-million dollar income, owner of a three-storey office building in Houston, co-signer of her own family trust, and accumulator of four luxury homes and a boat, who has for decades enjoyed acclaim, leadership, and a wide influence and platform within evangelicalism, a woman who is jetted by private plane by one of the largest Christian Companies in the world, (because she makes us so much money, says one LifeWay worker), now complains about the ‘injustices women in evangelicalism’ have endured.

Beth Moore Battles Racism!
(But Dr. Oakley pushes back)

I’d say more about the insipidness of the ‘shade of hands’ tweet, but Dr Oakley nailed it.

Hypocrisy Moment:

There are 10-members on the Board of Directors at Living Proof. Four of them are Moores; Beth, husband Keith, daughter Melissa and daughter Amanda. They are white. Daughter and Board Member Melissa co-writes and researches Bible studies with her mom, Beth. Is it that perhaps “white hands” and only “white hands” at Living Proof  are theologically shaping the clay?


Moore has been in the business of teaching Bible for many years. Moore says she has had some sort of extreme “existential crisis” for the last 18 months, then came out earlier this year as a social justice, women affirming, race promoting warrior rebuking one and all for her own perception of things wrong with the global church. She has been virtue signalling, something Jesus hated (Matthew  6:1, 2, 5, 7, 16, 23:14). Her interests now are politics and secular causes. Drift from her initial mission is obvious.

Only time will tell where this slide will bring Moore, but it is more imperative than ever to raise the cry that this woman is dangerous and should be avoided

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. (Romans 16:17).

Posted in Uncategorized

Why responding to a discernment essay by saying “only God knows the heart” is totally wrong and displays a total lack of discernment

When I do a discernment essay, I am often treated to an old chestnut of a comment that is becoming practically standard for those without discernment to post:

He alone is sovereign and fully knows all hearts!

God is sovereign. God knows the heart. But we do too.

If a teacher’s doctrine has been proven false by comparing it with the Bible, then we DO know their heart! The Bible tells us this. Only God knows the hearts of the people, but if their teaching is not of the Lord, then the God who sees hearts has exposed those hearts to us by the verses of His word!

Their hearts are full of deceit. Colossians 2:8
Their hearts are filled with their own appetites. Romans 16:17-18
Their hearts are disguised with light. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
Their hearts are full of greed. 2 Peter 2:3
Their hearts are ravenous. Matthew 7:15.
Their hearts are inwardly full of sensuality. Jude 1:4
Their hearts are full of secrets, such as destructive heresies. 2 Peter 2:1
Their hearts are full of intent to exploit. 2 Peter 2:3
Their hearts are full of fleshly passions. 2 Timothy 4:3
Their hearts are puffed up with conceit. 1 Timothy 6:4
His heart understands nothing. 1 Timothy 6:4
Their hearts are cunning and crafty. Ephesians 4:14
Their hearts serve the creature. Romans 1:25
Their hearts are slaves of corruption. 2 Peter 2:19.
Their hearts deny the Master who bought them. 2 Peter 2:1
Their hearts prophesy lies. Jeremiah 23:26

So whenever I expose a testimony as false or a teaching as false, or a teacher as false, using biblical proof, STOP saying that this is a bad activity because “only God knows the heart”. He does, that’s true, but He has shown us the heart of the false teacher in His word. He taught us this in His word for the purpose of being mature, discerning, and so we can learn for ourselves and also teach the younger to be edified and strong.

Posted in Uncategorized

Discernment Lesson: Comparing a Beth Moore & Martyn Lloyd Jones teaching on on the same verse

I recently did a discernment lesson on the most popular story Beth Moore tells, The Hairbrush Story. Chris Rosebrough has dismantled it sentence by sentence, and I pointed readers to that link, and then offered some of my own insights.

Because writing a discernment lesson about a false teacher takes so much time, which means I have to spend a lot of time wallowing in her muck, it necessitates a spiritual wash afterwards. I got curious about Moore’s teaching on Ephesians 3:19, which The Hairbrush Story was allegedly about. She focused on the part of the verse which promises the full measure of God (NIV), or the fullness of God (ESV).

and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. (Ephesians 3:19)

I love Martyn Lloyd Jones’ sermons, especially on Ephesians, which I am going through anyway. I decided to listen to his treatment of the verse, the same verse, the one and only verse, and see what I could learn. After hearing Moore, I really did want to know more about the full measure of Christ it is a majestic topic. The phrase kept rolling around in my head. So I headed over to the Martyn Lloyd Jones (MLJ) Trust Sermons and listened so my mind could be cleansed from the mud and I could learn about Jesus from a credible preacher. I found the MLJ sermon All the Fullness of God

As I was pondering these things, a tweet came up from my twitter friend Landon Chapman at Entreating Favor website and Fire Away! podcast. Here it is:

This is very, very wise. I take his advice to heart.

I have never immediately compared a false teacher’s lesson on a verse to a credible teacher’s treatment of it. Of course I always compare the false teacher’s lesson to the Bible. Also, it’s not often I can find a false teacher having focused solely on one verse for the point of her lesson and then find a preacher who also preached on that exact sole verse. Comparing would be easy. Not uncomplicated or fast, but easy as in apples to apples. The Moore teaching was still fresh in my mind, as I listened to Jones’. I listened to MLJ’s sermon three times in fact.

I found that Beth Moore and Martyn Lloyd Jones, having taught the same single verse, came to exactly opposite conclusions. Totally at odds with each other. One says yes, the other no. One says black, the other says white. One says up, the other down. By the picture below, you can easily see which Bible teacher’s teaching I found biblical.

Lloyd Jones’ well known nickname; A nickname I dub Moore

Moore taught that the full measure of Christ in us believers is something we do not currently possess.
Jones taught that the fullness of Christ is something we currently do possess.

Moore taught that we could possess it IF we do certain things.
Jones taught that the fullness is something every believer already has as a gift.

Moore taught that the reason we want the full measure of Christ is so we can get blessing and power.
Jones categorically rejects this.

Moore taught that the fullness was a feeling.
Jones taught that the fullness was a doctrine.

Moore taught that we want the full measure of Christ so we can get something, power, love, blessing.
Jones taught that having the fullness of Christ is something we aspire to because Christ is the prize.

They even have a different summation point-

Beth Moore teaching the point of lesson: “I’ve got to know somebody totally loves me.”
Lloyd Jones says the point of the verse is: “It is the highest doctrine of all.”

I won’t go on, you can see it on this chart I made. I included the links from which I delved into each lesson, and the minute at which I heard each teaching so if you care to check it out yourself, you can. Below the chart are the two illustrations each teacher gave. Moore’s was with the measuring cup and Jones’s was about a bottle. They come to opposite conclusions. Moore believes the fullness has a quantity to it and Jones says the full measure is about the quality of it.

Note: MLJ preached the Ephesians series between 1957 and 1980. Moore’s hairbrush story was re-published on LifeToday in 2012 and that is where I reviewed it, though she had delivered it at least as early as 2011 and maybe a year or two earlier than that. The comments in the chart are direct quotes.

The illustration: Moore’s measuring cup and liquid.

With this visual prop, Moore was teaching that we do not possess the full measure. However if we do certain things in our own power and then ask for the fullness, Christ will give it AND “the power that comes with it”. In Moore’s interpretation, we are all 16 oz measuring cups and some of us have 2 ounces of the fullness and others of us have 4 ounces and others get to be filled up completely. A total filling is not something that will happen on this side of eternity anyway.

Lloyd-Jones teaches the opposite. He focuses on ton the vessel but on the quality of the filling. He said we already possess the fullness of Christ in us when we’re saved. He said the power of God (omnipotence) is an attribute of God that is NON-communicable. MLJ also said the fullness is not a quantity, but a quality. Why?

because the amount varies. It varies in the same man from time to time. It varies from one of us to the other, and yet we all can have the fullness.

Here is an illustration to show how you can possess the fullness and yet have more of it. Take a bottle and put it into the sea. You can fill it. Then you can say that bottle is full of the sea. Then you can take a great tank and do the same thing. They both have a fullness but they haven’t the same amount. And the sea is always the sea. The little bottle full of sea has just the same characteristics of the sea in fullness as the tank has.

The drastic difference between the two teachings comes from their view of Jesus and of self. Jones’ eyes are on Christ, Moore’s is on herself. With her, the fullness is something we get, power comes with it, we do things with this power, we get blessing, we receive affirmation of love, and we can have more of it. We, we, we. Her eyes are on self.

Jones shows us where our eyes should be. Not on the bottle, not on the amount that is IN the bottle, not on the tank, not on anything we might think we get, but on the SEA. It is what is IN us that matters. It’s all about Christ in us, His righteousness, His fullness. It has nothing to do with our works, our deeds, our emptying, our effectiveness, our requests, or anything whatsoever to do with us. He bestows His fullness of Himself to us on salvation. It is all about Christ.

For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen. (Ephesians 3:14-21)

[By Elizabeth Prata]
Posted in Uncategorized

One of God’s judgments on people are false teachers

Repost from March 2012 with some edits added.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires.” (2 Timothy 4:3)

“False teachers are God’s judgment on people who don’t want God, but in the name of religion plan on getting everything their carnal heart desires. That’s why a Joel Osteen is raised up. Those people who sit under him are not victims of him but he is the judgment of God upon them. And they want exactly what he wants, and it’s not God.” ~ Paul Washer

We often think that the verse means that people who sit under a Joel Osteen or a Beth Moore are hapless victims, fallen prey to the insidious destruction of the prowling false teacher. No. The verse clearly shows us that people are the agitators, they are their own catalysts for false teachers being raised up. The people “accumulate for themselves” teachers who match their passions.

Notice that the onus of the act is on the people, NOT the teachers (not that I am saying the teachers escape culpability). But the people who have passions search out and look for false teachers that match those passions, and “accumulate for themselves” these teachers. And the teachers are only too happy to comply, because there is money in it, the usual reason false teachers want to be false teachers. (2 Peter 2:3). Paul Washer said someone like an Osteen is not making victims of the people he IS the JUDGMENT upon the people! In other words, they asked for him, they got him!

So people who want affirmation of their emotions in mystical visions, seek out a Beth Moore. People who seek prosperity and are greedy at heart seek out a Joel Osteen. People who are focused on the body and healing seek out a Benny Hinn. And so on. Prideful people who want to think they are earning their own salvation seek out the Pope. They accumulate for themselves the false teacher…

Here is Washer, explaining the verse:

[By Elizabeth Prata]