Author: elizabethprata

Christian writer and Georgia reading teacher who loves Jesus, a quiet life, art, beauty, and children.
Posted in cessationist, continuationist, speaking in tongues

Are the miracle spiritual gifts for today? Part 2: Speaking in tongues

Posted on by elizabethprata

Yesterday I wrote the beginning of a look at the question “Are the miracle spiritual gifts for today?” I noted that a controversy exists. People who say that the miracle sign gifts have stopped with the deaths of the Apostles are cessationists (miracle gifts have ceased). People who say that miracles and prophecies and tongues and healings happen today, and that they have never stopped, are continuationists.

I also noted that the controversy is based on a biblical belief that’s not a part of the essential doctrines of saving faith, so we need to have grace when discussing these.

I have friends who are in or who came from circles where it was taught or demonstrated that the miracle gifts are a normal part of Christian walk. As I explore whether the miracle spiritual gifts have stopped or not, I plan to make it a biblical exploration. Please do not consider this an attack on any person’s particular faith or denomination. I want to soberly take a look at the question, but I know that in so doing, the fact that so many people have had an experience which is tied to their emotions, they may react emotionally. Let’s just put Jesus in the center and discern His word, with full assurance from me that this discussion is from the heart and not a jab at any person’s salvation or any particular denomination’s legitimacy.

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In the last post I posed the question and offered scriptures that indicate that the sign gifts of ‘tongues’, interpretation of tongues, healing, miracles, and prophecies healing, seemed to have the strongest biblical position as having stopped with the death of the Apostles. Most discussions about the miracle gifts center around a misunderstanding of the ministry of the Holy Spirit’s ministry, and a misunderstanding of why the miracle gifts were given in the first place. You can refer back to that part for the biblical discussion for more information. Personally I do not believe the sign gifts are continuing in the church age.

Yet so many people today wonder about being Spirit-filled, or being “baptized with the Holy Spirit” and if it is a separate event from the regenerating work.

Others wonder about “praying in the Spirit”?

Still others wonder about praying in tongues?

We see a lot of external manifestation of these on television and at revivals of different sorts. This is confusing people. They wonder what is real and what is not.

Let’s take a look at “tongues.”

My understanding of the biblical meaning of speaking in tongues is that the sermon at Pentecost miraculously delivered unto the disciples an ability to speak in the same language as the multitudes that had gathered from the nations for Passover. The annual pilgrimage swelled the walls of Jerusalem because so many people came from so many nations. They all spoke different languages. The disciples didn’t have time to go to a mission college and take two years to learn Arabic, the Lord delivered to them an ability to speak in Persian, and Cyrillic and Greek and all the other languages of the day- instantly. It was NOT a baby talk gibberish! Look at the verses:

“And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” (Acts 2:6-11 ESV).

The Lord opened up their mind so they would be able to preach to the Gentiles who had traveled there from far places for the Passover. They spoke each in their own language so the visitors could hear the Gospel message. It could not be clearer. It means native language, not a gibberish language.

So what did Paul mean in 1st Corinthians when he said,

“Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.” (1 Corinthians 14:5)

The same thing. The word for tongues is glossa, and it is defined by Strong’s in the Greek as, “a language, a nation (usually distinguished by their speech).”

How could all those people who spoke other languages understand and be saved if it was in gibberish??? Did the Lord deliver gibberish unto Peter and to Thomas an ability understand Peter’s gibberish and to translate? And to translate into what language? The Acts verse states there were people from at least 15 different countries present. It was not gibberish.

Let’s take a look at the history of languages and the Lord. Before Nimrod built the tower at Babel, the world had one language. “Now the whole earth had one language and the same words.” (Genesis 11:1)

Note that they not only had the same language, but the same words. Same words means same vocabulary. Britons and Americans share a language today but not the same vocabulary words. Boot/trunk, roundabout/rotary, queue/line, like that. But in the early days of history all people understood each other perfectly, with no linguistic variations, no dialects, and no difference in vocabulary.

Then the LORD confused the languages as the men built the tower, and dispersed them over the world. “Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another’s speech.” (Genesis 11:7).

He will reverse that in the end. Zephaniah 3:9 prophesies: ““For at that time I will change the speech of the peoples to a pure speech, that all of them may call upon the name of the LORD and serve him with one accord.”

The word in Genesis for “confused language” and the word in Zephaniah for “same language”, is the same: language=saphah.

He confused the languages at Babel… so why can’t he make those languages understandable at Pentecost? He did. And it seems that Zephaniah 3:10 speaks to the possibility of one language again at the very end.

So the Lord opened up their mind to give them instant ability to speak and interpret languages. That is so wonderful!

Tongues means language. It cannot be clearer. Now that we have a biblical understanding of tongues, does the spiritual gift of instantly understanding another’s language remain in force today? It does not seem so. We can understand that the miracle of speaking instantly in other languages is ceased for now by implicit position because missionaries aren’t given that miracle. They go to school and learn the language the regular way, lol. I know of one missionary who is in Jordan right now wishing she could be instantly delivered into an ability to speak Arabic! But no, she is slogging through the old fashioned way.

The Pentecostals in particular have perverted the notion of “tongues”. The proper understanding of tongues is languages, but they take it to mean something completely unbiblical. They have created a Gnostic approach to the faith by instituting a multi-leveled maturity. The Gnostics claim that they have special wisdom and understanding that is higher than the regular Christian. Not so. But Pentecostals say, “You’re not really a Christian unless you demonstrate tongues…” This is false. (1 Corinthians 12: 29-30, 1 Cor 14:23). You are saved by grace when you repent and believe on the name of the resurrected Jesus. No tongues necessary.

Justin Peters has a multi-part discernment series titled “A Call For Discernment“. In his updated lesson from July 2012, he notes the verse in 1 Corinthians 14:20-22, “Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.” Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.”

In the OT, the way the Hebrews knew the hammer judgment of God was about to come down would be when they looked up and saw many foreign people speaking to them foreign language. Paul referred to it when he said’ it is written in the Law’, it is found in Isaiah 28:11. When the men in Acts at Pentecost began to speak in foreign tongues it was the same indicator, that judgment was here. God’s salvific gaze shifted from the Jews to the Gentiles, where His gaze remains to this day. One day, His salvific gaze will return to Israel. But back then and up to today, His judgment is that the Jews remain in judgment, hardened to his salvation offer.

If a person says they speak in tongues as a private prayer language, that has no biblical support either. The gifts are given by the Spirit for the edification of the body, not for personal, private use. The gifts are for the common good. (1 Cor. 12:7; 1 Pet. 4:10).

“If the gift of speaking in tongues were active in the church today, it would be performed in agreement with Scripture. It would be a real and intelligible language (1 Corinthians 14:10). It would be for the purpose of communicating God’s Word with a person of another language (Acts 2:6-12). It would be in agreement with the command God gave through the apostle Paul, “If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God” (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). It would also be in accordance with 1 Corinthians 14:33, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” … The vast majority of believers who claim to practice the gift of speaking in tongues do not do so in agreement with the Scriptures mentioned above.” (source)

So they misunderstand it to begin with and then apply it incorrectly, thus continuing the error.

It always goes back to the Holy Spirit because He is the One who distributes the gifts, and the gifts are supposed to testify to Jesus. Art Azurdia speaking at a Discernment Conference said he has seen an evolution in things said about the Holy Spirit:

40 years ago: Come and get a ‘second blessing’
35 years ago: Come and get baptized with the Holy Spirit
25 years ago: Come and get slain by the Holy Spirit
20 years ago: Come and get blasted by the Holy Spirit
15 years ago: Come and laugh in the Holy Spirit
10 years ago: Come and vomit in the Holy Spirit
Today: Come and get punched in the Holy Spirit

The “Charismatic Chaos” that the misapplication of the continuation of the miraculous gifts has bestowed is confusion, doubt, mockery, and  just plain silliness. These in turn have raised concerns. Azurdia said, “A pastoral concern is that the spiritual development of well-meaning Christians easily falls prey to law of diminishing returns. Today’s enthusiasm becomes tomorrow’s bore. Today’s spiritual ecstasy this week will need to be out-done next week. You’ve seen it, the ordinary gives way to the unusual, the unusual gives way to the extreme, the extreme gives way to the ridiculous, and eventually it always leads to the same end: emptiness.”

Azurdia said a doctrinal issue arises after the pastoral issue. The gifts have become Christian-centered rather than Christ centered.

Azurdia said, “It’s about meeee, and getting those goosebumps on the back of my neck. And yet, it is as clear as can be. The Holy ambition of the Spirit of God is to reveal and glorify Jesus Christ.”

Arthur Johnson, in his excellent expose of mysticism, entitled, “Faith Misguided”, a very good book, calls the Charismatic movement, “The zenith of mysticism,” and he does so with good reason, because there is the desire, in some cases and through some experiences, to switch off the mind and disconnect yourself from what is rational, and reasonable, and logical.” (source)

If the miracle gift of tongues is ceased, and if it was a language and not gibberish anyway, what is all this flailing around in tongues?

Fakery. Self-delusion. Satanic trickery. Misplaced emotion. Whatever you would like to call it, it does not glorify God because it is not biblical, orderly, edifying, or Jesus honoring.

How can I say that so definitively? Because we’re told in many passages the Holy Spirit testifies about Jesus. The gifts are given to bear witness of Jesus, to build His church. Not to sow confusion, spread doubt, or create second class citizens separated from from each other by man-made, artificial levels of maturity.

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.” (John 15:26)

Do you think the Spirit is bearing witness about Jesus in the clip below?

If you have been told that you are not saved until you pass some man-made benchmark of maturity, or not until you demonstrate a man-made level of holiness, or not until you show you have an insider track on tongues or being slain or getting a second blessing, then I am sorry. I grieve for you, but we can rejoice now in knowing that the bible declares you saved when you repent and believe.

“From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.” (Matthew 4:17)

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Here is a good series on the Gifts and the Ministry of the Holy Spirit:

Miracles and Spiritual Gifts
The Duration of the Miraculous Spiritual Gifts
The Nature of the Miraculous Spiritual Gifts

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Spiritual Gifts part 1
Spiritual Gifts part 3

EDITED to add this link: it is a short, clear, concise essay demonstrating the original purpose for speaking in different languages, and scripturally showing how and why tongues have ceased. “The gift of tongues“

Posted in bible, fatherhood

TV Dads: the good, the bad, and the ugly

Posted on by elizabethprata

I thought I’d take a break from encouragement and theological stuff for a minute and ponder the important question of TV dads. LOL 🙂

How men have been presented to us via the television broadcast is an important topic, because satan has co-opted Hollywood and TV and seeks to instill discontent, present a skewed version of the Godly family, and generally to wreak havoc.

TV is a way to present reality back to the society and when we watch enough of it, even the most outlandish presentation will seem to become normative.

I bring this up because TVLand has begun showing The Cosby Show reruns. I’m old enough to remember the show when it first came on. I had forgotten how wholesome it is. Bill Cosby is married to his first love, he works, he loves his children, he goes to church, he prays, and he is affectionate. He is not made to look like a doofus, or stupid or non-essential. He is undeniably the final arbiter of decision-making in the show.

It was a rare oasis in the midst of the inevitable decline in the institution of fatherhood as shown on television.

Below are some thoughts, and certainly are not comprehensive. I did not mention all the families on tv at the decade listed, of course. Maybe some of your faves were left out. I just want to give an overview of the progression of how fatherhood is presented and remind us of what the bible expects from dads.

50s Father Knows Best: (1949-1960). This show is representative of the best kind of family entertainment. The dad was “a thoughtful father who offered sage advice whenever one (or more) of his children had a problem.” (Wiki). He was a professional man, and his stay at home wife was common-sense and supportive. Today, would tv producers even allow the show’s title?

60s My Three Sons (widower), Bonanza (widower), Andy Griffith (widower), Courtship of Eddie’s Father (widower). Bachelor Father (single, raising his orphaned niece). This decade began a troublesome trope in television: the motherless family. Was this due to feminism’s appearance? Societal discontent that was bubbling under the surface which exploded in the latter part of the decade in the sexual revolution? In Andy Griffith’s world spinster Aunt Bee helped raise the son and in My Three Sons, the grandfather and then the Dad’s brother helped in the household. However, despite the lack of a mom in the household the father was presented as solid, loving, manly, involved, and in charge.

70s Brady Bunch, 1969-1974. Mike Brady is shown as an involved dad, respected community member, and successful professional. In one episode he was named Father of the Year after his step-daughter submitted an essay. Mike Brady is considered the best TV dad of that decade, but his family situation differed from the earlier nuclear family of the fifties such as Ozzie & Harriet and Leave it to Beaver. We now have a blended family, three of the children are his and three are his second wife’s. Carol Brady was originally intended to be a divorcee, but the network objected, and in a compromise of sorts, they never mentioned why her first marriage ended. Remarriage was now presented as a norm.

Good Times: 1974-1979. This was the first show to depict an inner-city apartment dwelling impoverished black family. The family was nuclear, though (but the neighbor was a divorced single mom with an adopted daughter). The dad of the household was James Evans and worked at whatever he had to in order to provide for his family. He loved his wife and was warm and loving toward her as he was to his children. Both the series’ main characters, John Amos as the dad and Esther Rolle as the mom, initially approved of the show’s direction because it had a strong father figure and a loving nuclear family. However as the show’s eldest son’s character became more stereotypical (bufoonish, illiterate, and lazy) and both actors became vocal about the negative direction, first the dad was written out of the series and then the mom. Despite the loss of both parents, the show continued to do well in the ratings. The next door divorcee became the main parent.

70s All in the Family (1971-1979). Opposite Mike Brady’s successful handling of his home and professional life, tv dad Archie Bunker is presented as a bumbling, gruff, bigoted, ignorant dad the family must suffer through living with. His advice was always wrong, and his ways were always out of step. He berated his wife in front of his child and in front of others by telling her to stifle herself and calling her a dingbat. I remember this being the first tv dad I would not want as my dad. During its initial run the show was a huge success and after its cancellation it was listed as one of the ‘greatest tv shows of all time”. Part of the set is now in the Smithsonian Institution. In my opinion this character began the decline of the tv dad. It was shown that it was OK to make the dad an ignorant buffoon and the show would still be highly rated. The rest is history: dad’s authority vanished.

80s Cosby (1984-1992) vs Roseanne. (1988-1997) This was the decade of the rise of the subverted patriarchal authority. Either overtly or covertly, women took over. Cosby Show’s Cliff Huxtable was an exception, but other dads such as Dan in Roseanne, Homer Simpson in The Simpsons, cede territory to the wife where the bible clearly says is the husband’s/dad’s. And Homer is just dim-witted and lazy.

In Who’s The Boss (no more ‘father knows best’, now we’re not so sure…) a retired major league baseball player named Tony Micelli relocates to Fairfield, Connecticut to work as a live-in housekeeper for a divorced advertising executive who was the household’s sole breadwinner. Talk about patriarchal authority’s diminishment! And not surprisingly the show was one of the most popular sitcoms of the mid-to-late-1980s, consistently placing in the top ten throughout most if its run. To be fair, the reason for the dad’s decision to become a live-in housekeeper was to provide a better environment for his daughter after the mom died, but to take a job as a housekeeper was consistent with the 80s push for men to be presented as subservient to the woman of the house. The blended family in this case included the mom’s mother as a slut. (Oops, sorry a “sexually progressive older woman.”)

In the 80s the pace picked up of moms who were absent from the show, many of whom unlike in the 50s and 60s were not depicted dead, but had abandoned their kids. Diff’rent Strokes, Punky Brewster, My Two Dads, Gimme a Break, Silver Spoons, Full House, Who’s the Boss?, Blossom, Empty Nest are just a few examples. The disruption of the family as presented to society via television was in full swing. What was happening in society at that time: No-fault divorce.

Dan Conner in Roseanne often battled wills with his forceful and outspoken wife (I’m being generous here). Dan was often unemployed while his wife was the sole breadwinner, and later he was depicted as an adulterer.

90s Everybody Loves Raymond, (1996-2005). Father Ray Barone was dominated by his stay at home wife, and dominated worse by his mother- who lived across the street. He was shown as a mama’s boy caving in to his mother’s demands while often throwing his wife’s needs under the bus, often in front of the family or in public. He was selfish as a husband and a dad and was never shown as sacrificing for his family or wife. The family dynamic was depicted as political one-upsmanship, gamesmanship, or conspiratorial ploys to get one’s way. The wife was not supported or nurtured but was someone to either have sex with or serve dinner-both of which he often complained about the lack thereof. The dad was shown as working for a living and providing a nice home for his family but at the same time disparaging his wife’s contribution to the house as stay at home mom. The dad was shown as lazy and uninvolved, even ignorant of having fatherly abilities. (Books were given, classes were taken).

2000s Family Guy (1999–2002, 2005–2010). I have never seen this show and I never will. Wikipedia describes it: “The show revolves around the adventures of the family of Peter Griffin, a bumbling blue-collar worker. Peter is an Irish-American Catholic with a prominent Rhode Island and Eastern Massachusetts accent. He is married to Lois, a stay-at-home mother and piano teacher who, as member of the Pewterschmidt family of wealthy socialites, has a distinct New England accent. Peter and Lois have three children: Meg, their teenage daughter, who is awkward and does not fit in at school, and is constantly ridiculed and ignored by the family; Chris, their teenage son, who is overweight, unintelligent and a younger version of his father in many respects; and Stewie, their diabolical infant son of ambiguous sexual orientation who has adult mannerisms and uses stereotypical archvillain phrases. Living with the family is Brian, the family dog, who is highly anthropomorphized, drinks martinis, and engages in human conversation, though he is still considered a pet in many respects.” It has been nominated for 13 Emmy Awards and has won four.

I have no words. We went from Father Knows Best to father knows nothing.

I bring this up because in watching the Cosby Show last night, there was a scene of great tenderness. Cliff comes down the stairs in the middle of the night, searching for his wife who is absent from the bed. He finds her at the desk, working. He gently asks her if anything is the matter, and she says she couldn’t sleep and decided to work. He asks if he has been snoring again and she admits he was. “Why didn’t you turn me over?” he asks, and she laughs and said she had turned him every which way but his snoring didn’t abate, so she came downstairs. Cliff asks her to come back to bed and she says she wants to work a while longer. He looks lovingly at her for a moment and then gently picks her up and dances with her up the stairs. Her low laughter echoes in the room as the light is turned off.

This scene remained with me because it is tender. Where is the tender, selfless care by tv fathers and dads these days? Husbandly and fatherly tenderness is absent from tv today. I am not speaking of a tenderness that is effeminate, but of a strong, loving, tenderness. Most of the time today we see that if a husband (or lover) awoke in bed alone he’d smile and grab all the covers, never mind actually get up to see if his bride was all right.

The bible says a husband/father is to leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife. (Genesis 2:24). That leaves Ray Barone out.

Husbands are to have authority over their wives. (1 Corinthians 11:3). That leaves Dan Conner out.

Husbands are to respect their wives. (1 Peter 3:7). That leaves Archie Bunker out. In one Everybody Loves Raymond episode, Ray calls his wife Debra a “smelly tramp.”

Husbands are to consult with their wives. (Genesis 31:4-7). That leaves Ray Barone out.

Husbands are to love them. (Ephesians 5:25-33). That leaves Dan Conner out.

Fathers are to love their children. (Psalm 103:13). That leaves Family Guy out.

Fathers are to discipline their children. (Hebrews 12:7). That leaves Ray Barone & Homer Simpson out.

Fathers are to train their children in the way they should go. (Proverbs 22:6; Eph 6:4). In the one episode in Everybody Loves Raymond I saw that showed some kind of faith, Debra asked Ray why he didn’t go to church, and his response was typically selfish. He was pressured into going and then spent the entire episode envying his father and brother’s ‘escape’ into the vestibule to count the offering money, when he wasn’t daydreaming or nodding off, that is. Except in the Cosby Show, I never have seen positive portrayal of prayer, church or the Lord mentioned on a sitcom. (above, Ray in bathrobe eating cereal out of the box while his nicely dressed family leaves for church)

One show that I do enjoy for presenting Godly men in Christian households is Duck Dynasty. Every episode ends with a prayer (though editors chop out the part where they say “In Jesus’s name”). The men are caring, involved, patriarchs, Godly men who do not swear, love their wives and run their households according to biblical standards. When the son was wrestling with a big decision he had to make his father offered the following advice: “Anytime I make a decision, I take a walk in the woods and talk to the Almighty.” Satan must hate this show.

Brethren, please consult your bible to see how fathers and husbands are shown and try to keep your children from watching shows that are contrary to it. If you do watch shows or movies that vary with the biblical presentation of dads, then talk to your older children about the difference, and emphasize what the bible expects from men in those roles. It makes a difference what we show to our kids. Even better, strive to BE that husband and father that God enables you through the Spirit to be.

If you know of some good and Godly shows where the men are presented biblically, please do share.

Above, patriarch Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty prays over the family before dinner
Posted in benny hinn, miracles, slain in the spirit, spiritual gifts, tongues

Are the miraculous spiritual gifts for today? Part 1

Posted on by elizabethprata

Do you wonder about being Spirit-filled, or being “baptized with the Holy Spirit” as a separate event from the regenerating work?

Do you ponder whether whether the miracle gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians have ceased?

And what about “praying in the Spirit”? What is that all about?

I was asked these questions this week and I answered in an email but decided to bring the issue to the blog also. I had an interesting conversation this summer with a person who attends a Pentecostal church and the issues that were raised then are still on my mind. So when the email came…

Disclaimer: I have friends who are in or who came from circles where it was taught or demonstrated that the miracle gifts are a normal part of Christian walk. As I explore whether the miracle spiritual gifts have stopped or not, I plan to make it a biblical exploration. Please do not consider this an attack on any person’s particular faith or denomination. I want to soberly take a look at the question, but I know that in so doing, the fact that so many people have had an experience which is tied to their emotions, they may react emotionally. Let’s just put Jesus in the center and discern His word,with full assurance from me that this discussion is from the heart and not a jab at any person’s salvation or any particular denomination’s legitimacy.

The question is discussed in various circles and it is an ongoing discussion. It is called “Cessationism versus non-cessationism” or in other words, if the miracle gifts have ceased or have not ceased. Sometimes the discussion gets heated. However, it is not a salvation issue nor it is something that impacts the essential doctrines of faith, so in discussing the issue here or anywhere let’s have grace and remember not to bring division. This isn’t a hill to die on, but it does call for discernment. The bible does tell us the miracle gifts are foundational, and the foundation has already been laid by the Apostles. So we must be careful when we see what someone claims is a miracle or says they are speaking for God with a word, just as we are told to test all things.

First, we look at the Holy Spirit and what He does for His church. These are links to all the bible verses collected on the topic of the Holy Spirit in each of His ministries–

The Ministry of the Holy Spirit as comforter:

Holy Spirit, The Personality of

Holy Spirit, The Teacher

Holy Spirit as God

Second, what are the spiritual gifts the Spirit gives, and where are they in the bible?

GotQuestions answers that one:
“The three main passages describing the spiritual gifts are Romans 12:6-8; 1 Corinthians 12:4-11; and 1 Corinthians 12:28. The spiritual gifts identified in Romans 12 are prophesying, serving, teaching, encouraging, giving, leadership, and mercy. The list in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 includes the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, faith, healing, miraculous powers, prophecy, distinguishing between spirits, speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues. The list in 1 Corinthians 12:28 includes healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.”

The essay goes on to define each gift a little more.

The Holy Spirit delivers spiritual gifts to all believers. (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). All people have at least one gift, and some have two or more. For example all pastors are teachers but not all teachers are pastors. Some of these were gifts of revelation from God and others were gifts of miracles, like healing or languages.

Third, what are the miracle gifts, specifically?

Bible.org states:
“On any given day of the week, Christians can be found debating with one another over the “sign gifts”–that is, the spiritual gifts of tongues, prophecy, miracles, and healings. [emphasis mine]. The debates center on a simple issue: Are they for today or not? There is no debate about whether these gifts were a part of the first-century Church. That part is assumed by all who embrace the Bible as the Word of God. Rather, the debate is whether these gifts have continued or have ceased. There is no debate that certain spiritual gifts have continued to today, such as teaching, mercy, administration, service, etc. But whether the more overtly supernatural gifts continued is a different matter. Again, the issue is not whether God is still powerful enough to work such miracles. Rather, the issue is whether he does so through individuals as special emissaries of his power.”

Why were these gifts given as described in the book of Acts?

The purposes of spiritual gifts given to the Apostles was to reveal and confirm God’s will for man. The miracle gifts were given to authenticate that these men were indeed from God and their words and deeds could be trusted as coming from the Divine source. The miracle gifts were to authenticate His men who proclaimed His will. And cessationists say that authenticating work was completed during the lifetime of the original apostles when the bible was closed.

Painting: Peter raising Tabitha, Acts 9:40,
Pierre-Jacques Cazes, Louvre.

Others say no, they are not finished, that the normal Christian life is, or can be, full of miracles and healings and supernatural knowledge and “tongues” just as actively as it was in the immediate post-resurrection time. The question is not whether God CAN work this way. His power is perfect and His will is His will. The question is, does He still work this way, and as a result, does the Spirit still distribute these miracle gifts to believers today?

“Jesus invested supernatural authority in his own apostles (Matt 28:16-20) to bring this good news to the world. These apostles and certain others in the early church had a measure of some of these gifts. Whether they represent all Christians of all time or whether theirs was a special time and a special gift is the question.” (source)

The folks at CompellingTruth.org wrote:
“The early church did not yet have the full revelation of Scripture. The Scripture was revealed to the apostles – the same apostles who by signs and wonders were proven to be authentic messengers of God. Their gifts of prophecy, knowledge, wisdom and inspiration were now added to the list alongside healing and miracles, and were given in order for the early believers to know God’s will and plans. But these “revelatory” gifts, now that the Bible is finished, are obsolete. The Bible is a supernaturally-inspired book, given to the apostles, God’s proven messengers. We are commanded not to add to or take away from the Word of God as revealed to the apostles (Revelation 22:18-19). Because the revelatory gifts have ceased, and the sign gifts were given to give credence to those receiving God’s message, it is safe to assume that the sign gifts have also ceased.”

People who hold to the stance that the miracles still continue today point to the fact that Jesus is the same yesterday and today and tomorrow (Hebrews 13:8) so He would certainly still continue to distribute gifts via the Spirit. However, the bible shows us that some miracles He performed will never be repeated. (source)

  • Creation – Gen. 1,2 (cf. 2:1,2)
  • The flood of Noah’s day – Gen 6-9
  • The virgin birth – Matthew 1:18,20; Luke 1:35
  • Jesus’ resurrection
  • The work of apostles living on earth (Acts 1:21,22)

So does that mean Jesus is different today than He was yesterday? No.

I am of the opinion the miracle gifts of languages, healings, prophecy, interpretation of languages and sundry miracles have mostly ceased- in believers. I believe that God still performs them or at least he can still perform them. I hold this opinion because of my high regard for the closed canon of the bible. It is God’s word and in it He said that no one is to add to it nor take away from it. Additional revelation, such as when Beth Moore says she was lifted up into another dimension, shown things by Jesus through His eyes, and sent back down to teach them, I believe are false.

If we believe Moore, and the myriad other people who claim to have a prophecy or a revelation or a miracle, where does it stop? It doesn’t. It is chaos. These modern “revelations” have the exact characteristics of false prophecy, not true prophecy. Falsity brings chaos, and that is exactly what we have today in the believing church. Chaos. [Here is a good series on the topic: Miracles and Spiritual Gifts]

John MacArthur is a cessationist who wrote a book called Charismatic Chaos, based on a preaching series he did. I recommend it.

So what about all the hubbub we see in the church of hearing a word from God, or the tongues, or miracles of healing we see on TV and in charismatic or Pentecostal revivals?

Benny Hinn crusade, Nashville?,people “slain in the Spirit”

Do you wonder about being Spirit-filled, or being “baptized with the Holy Spirit” as a separate event from the regenerating work? And what about “praying in the Spirit”? What is that all about? And what is it to speak in tongues? More on that next.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Part 2: Tongues
Part 3: Baptism of the Spirit

Posted in gold, spurgeon

Encouragement: "Testing the Genuineness of our Faith"

Posted on by elizabethprata

Testing the Genuineness of our Faith
Pastor Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-1892)

“In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 1:6-7)

“Untested faith may be true faith, but it is sure to be small faith, and it is likely to remain little as long as it is without trials. Faith never prospers so well as when all things are against her: Tempests are her trainers, and bolts of lightning are her illuminators.”

“When a calm reigns on the sea, spread the sails as you will, the ship does not move to its harbor; for on a slumbering ocean the keel sleeps too. Let the winds rush and howl, and let the waters lift themselves, though the vessel may rock and her deck may be washed with waves and her mast may creak under the pressure of the full and swelling sail, it is then that she makes headway toward her desired haven.”

“No flowers are as lovely a blue as those that grow at the foot of the frozen glacier; no stars gleam as brightly as those that glisten in the midnight sky; no water tastes as sweet as that which springs up in the desert sand; and no faith is so precious as that which lives and triumphs in adversity.”

“Tested faith brings experience. You could not have believed your own weakness if you had not been compelled to pass through the rivers; and you would never have known God’s strength if you had not been supported in the flood. Faith increases in quality, assurance, and intensity the more it is exercised with tribulation. Faith is precious, and its trial is precious too.”

“Do not let this, however, discourage those who are young in faith. You will have trials enough without seeking them: The full portion will be measured out to you in due course.”

“Meanwhile, if you cannot yet claim the result of long experience, thank God for what grace you have; praise Him for that degree of holy confidence you have now attained: Walk according to that rule, and you will still have more and more of the blessing of God, until your faith will remove mountains and conquer impossibilities.”
~by Charles Spurgeon

Posted in new jerusalem, street of gold

Thoughts on the "street of gold"

Posted on by elizabethprata

“And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, transparent as glass.” (Revelation 21:21)

We often marvel at the fact that the main street of the city in our future new home of New Jerusalem will be made of pure gold.

‘Wow!’ we think. ‘Isn’t it amazing that Jesus is adorning the place He is preparing for us so beautifully!’ And He is. (Revelation 21:2)

But I often wondered about the street and its main material: gold. Paving materials are usually waste materials. The Romans used broken stones mixed with cement and sand, cement mixed with broken tiles, curving stones—so the water could drain, and on the top they used tightly packed paving stones, according to Wikipedia. Below is a Wiki photo of a street in Pompeii. I have walked on the Appian Way in Rome and it looks the same.

Encylopedia Brittanica says that in the 1800s when paving became more widespread, “common paving materials were hoof-sized stone blocks, similarly sized wooden blocks, bricks, McAdam’s broken stone, and occasionally asphalt and concrete.”

Do we ever use precious materials for roads? No. We use waste materials, common materials.

I think the street of the city is of gold to remind us that when we tread upon it, what we once thought of as precious will be a vivid reminder that the real preciousness is Jesus. What He considers truly precious is our faith:

“so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 1:6-7)

Our faith is more precious than gold, because it is tested by trials. Gold will perish, but Jesus, the object of our faith, will never perish.

In heaven, gold will be as nothing to us, not when the real treasure is before our eyes. In that case, it is only fitting that gold will be under our feet.

Posted in homosexual, nobel peace prize

And the Nobel Peace prize goes to…

Posted on by elizabethprata

It is the end of a wonderful work-week. I am blessed to have work, and even better, it is work I love- with children. Children are such a blessing from Jesus. I pray you have children in your life and they are the light of the savior for you.

The European Union won the Nobel Peace prize today. The UK Daily Mail had an interesting headline, ‘The irony of awarding the Peace Prize ‘where there is no peace‘
“There’s a certain irony in awarding his prestigious Peace Prize to a union of nations which is presently being ripped apart by fiscal anarchy and economic folly. While the Greeks are burning German flags and Croatians are burning EU flags, Herman Van Rompuy seems to shuffle on obliviously.”

Greek protests

A fire bomb explodes among police in Athens
‘The EU is the biggest peace-making institution ever created in world history’, he proclaimed, with a straight face. While Spain teeters on the edge of civil unrest in the worst recession since the 1930s, the talk is once again of revolution. Yet the President of the European Council tells us in his bank-clerk tones that the award is for all European leaders and all European citizens ‘from this generation and the former generations’.

Nazi Greece

Greeks obediently delivering the Nazi salute in protest at what they see as German-imposed austerity measures.

Peace? Hardly. The part in the headline where the newspaper had put in quotes, ‘where there is no peace’ is a reference to the Jeremiah 6:14 verse where God told Jeremiah to tell the people, “They have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace.” ‘They’ refers to the prophets and priests who dealt falsely. The prophets and priests were the governmental leaders of that day.

We are also reminded of this verse, “While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:3)

And finally, we know that in the end, “peace is taken from the earth so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword.” (Revelation 6:4).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is interesting:

‘I lost every friend I had’: What happened when STRAIGHT Christian who believed homosexuality was a sin spent a year living as an out and proud gay man
“Homeschooled by a conservative Christian family, Timothy Kurek was raised to believe homosexuality was an abomination. But when a close friend revealed her family had disowned her for being a lesbian he resolved to learn how gays really lived. Kurek, 26, ‘came out’ and spent the next year pretending to be a gay man, experiencing an isolation from friends and family he never expected. … To make the charade seem real, Kurek also recruited a gay man to pose as his boyfriend. … The first time Kurek went to a gay club he was pulled on the dance floor by a man with no shirt on, covered in baby oil and glitter. ‘I didn’t know whether to punch the guy or smoke a cigarette after the song ended,’ Kurek told the Huffington Post.”

He read his mother’s diary to see what she thought of him being “gay”. He also wrote a book about his year of lying and released it on National Coming Out day.

My reaction to this incident is a harsh one. If you really want to honor Jesus you live the life He revealed to us- by His blood no less- which is to love Him with all your heart, strength, and soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Mr Kurek could have kept that commandment by loving his lesbian friend as a Christian without joining the world, indulging his flesh, and living a life Jesus hates. He could have been the Light in her life by demonstrating an agape love to her, and THAT would have done much more for her than what he did, which was live a life of lies, darkness and condemnation in Jesus’s eyes.

What it boils down to is that Mr Kurek professes to love Jesus, but lied to his friends and family for a whole year, lived a life that is an abomination to God, co-opted another person to join his lie (thereby putting a stumbling block in his way), invaded his mother’s privacy, and then wrote a book about his lie and his abomination, and is living off the lucre he gained from it. Let’s see about what the bible thinks:

“You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.” (James 4:4)

“Honor your father and your mother, which is the first commandment with a promise…” (Eph 6:2)

“No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.” (Matthew 6:24)

Did Lot pretend to be homosexual to better understand why people hated his family? No, and God called him righteous. I think the man in that article is an, ‘in the closet’ gay man who wanted to experiment for a year and get away with it, and he used God as his cover.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rejoice in trials, friends! “Tested faith brings experience. You could not have believed your own weakness if you had not been compelled to pass through the rivers; and you would never have known God’s strength if you had not been supported in the flood. Faith increases in quality, assurance, and intensity the more it is exercised with tribulation. Faith is precious, and its trial is precious too.” An excerpt from Devotional by CH Spurgeon, on 1 Peter1:6-7

Posted in abortion, election, gay, homosexuality, vote

Mitt Romney isn’t as solid on the social issues as you think he is

Posted on by elizabethprata

I think that most people assume that 2012 Presidential candidate Mitt Romney, being a ‘faithful’ man and a conservative, is solid on the social issues. Further many people believe that compared to the travesty that is Obama, Romney is a conservative answer to prayer, who operates within the framework of his Mormon faith and is against the behaviors that are the main social ills of today.

They would be wrong.

He is not.

I took a look at his record on three main issues, though there are many issues to look at, including foreign policy and economics. I examined Romney’s stance on two social issues and a foreign policy issue of interest to Christians: Abortion, Homosexual agenda, and Israel. I included links so you can check them out yourself. I noted the date, some articles are from 1994 and others are from today.

Homosexual agenda

Boy Scouts:
Romney believes that openly gay people should be allowed to participate in Boy Scouts as members or leaders. Currently the Boy Scouts of America does not allow. Romney is in agreement with Obama on this issue. “Romney says Boy Scouts should admit homosexuals“

Homosexual marriage:
Romney’s views on this have changed since 1994 when he first ran for office. Initially he believed in “equality for all citizens”. He declared he would be more liberal and effective than his opponent, Sen Ted Kennedy.

Said the same in 2002 when running for governor. (source)

When the Mass. Supreme court said that denying gays a legally sanctioned marriage, Romney sought to establish same sex civil unions, but stated that his personal views were that marriage should be just for one man and one woman. (source)

Has stated he would seek a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriages. (additional source)

Romney has consistently opposed expanding marriage to gays and lesbians, while paradoxically insisting that he supports equal rights for everyone. And he has tailored that message to please his shifting audiences. (source)

Other homosexual issues

He supported the Federal Employee Nondiscrimination Act and President Clinton’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy allowing gay men and women in the military in 1994.

Says he is for Gay Rights, (Aug 2011)

Romney’s stance on homosexual agenda issues is contradictory. When asked if it turned out that one of his grandkids was gay Romney said “I love my children, and I love my grandchildren, and of course I’d want them to be happy. My view is this: individuals should be able to pursue a relationship of love and respect and raise a family as they would choose. I would like to have the term ‘marriage’ continue to be associated with a relationship between one man and one woman, and that certainly doesn’t prevent two people of the same gender living in a loving relationship together having a domestic partnership, if you will.” (source) (source)

Abortion

–Said in 1994 that abortion should be safe and legal for all women (source)
–Said the same in 2002, affirming his stance that a woman has a right to choose
–Said in 2005 said he is staunchly pro-life
(source)

Oct 11, 2012- Believes abortion is wrong but will not seek to institute any laws about it. Abortion issues are not part of his agenda, he told reporters today. (source)

Oct 11, 2012 Later the same day he backpedalled on the statement (source)

Said he would de-fund Planned Parenthood. (source)

Here is a link showing Romney’s “evolution” on abortion issues. (source)

This is a straightforward factual listing of the issues written by AP, just out today. The title is Obama and Romney: where they stand on the issues. Side by side comparison of all issues, not just social. The piece includes compasiton of stances on debt, economy, Social Security, abortion, homosexual agenda, etc, the whole gamut is on this page. (source)

Tracy Bloom at TruthDig reports the following:
“GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney “reaffirmed” his staunch pro-life abortion position on Wednesday, saying his stance on the hot-button issue hasn’t changed. At least not since he became pro-life midway through his political career. Like on many issues—taxes, health care, stem-cell research, minimum wage, immigration reform, etc.—Romney has flipped-flopped positions in a seemingly concerted effort to appeal to a certain ideological group of voters.”

I posted Bloom’s piece because I have found the same flip-flopping as I travel the course of Romney’s life. I agree that whatever his personal feelings on an issue, when it comes to public policy, Romney changes to match the situation, constituency or to attain a political goal. This also includes a less than candid reporting of the reasons his grandfather fled the US to Mexico in the 1880s. And I’m not just talking about flip-flops on issues that are decades apart, but for example, the abortion flip flop that occurred the same day.

Israel

At a private fundraiser, a donor asked Romney how the “Palestinian problem” can be solved. Romney immediately launched into a detailed reply, asserting that the Palestinians have “no interest whatsoever in establishing peace, and that the pathway to peace is almost unthinkable to accomplish.” (source). The Main Stream Media treated this “discovered video” as a smoking gun, but in fact, Romney is absolutely right on the issue. The Palestinians do not want peace and it is futile to pursue it with them.

I agree with Romney on this and I’m also pleased he had a reply that included details. A two state solution only presages the judgment from God in Joel 3:2 where God said He will judge the nations because they have divided up His land. The much vaunted “Two State Solution” is no solution.

I post this tonight because I want us to be aware of the fact that Romney is not the answer to conservative prayer that he is being made out to be. The issue is not black and white and in fact is more complicated. Christians are in a quandary for good reason.

Add to that, Christians are weary. We are dejected in seeing the country crumble. We are concerned about the effect Obama has had in a mere four years and are heartily concerned with what will happen if he gets another four. We long to see faith played out on the national arena. We desire to see standards of morals and behavior applied consistently in at least one leader. The vacuum of goodness surely is dark on our hearts. Romney is the Republican candidate, conservative and intelligent, and many people are despondent enough with the way things are to say “good enough… close enough… what else we gonna do, anyway?”

Be mindful that Mitt Romney, while likely being a very nice man, generous and charitable, intelligent and having a grasp of economic issues, is unsaved. His ethics and morals have only been solid as far as they have served his political ambitions. I say this not to denigrate the man, but because I have spent the last two days reading numerous articles and seeing interviews and his positions change, sometimes over years, but more troubling, sometimes depending on who he is speaking to on the same day. I was saddened to read his responses to the hypothetical query about his grandchildren if they turned out to be gay. He wants them to be happy and in a relationship? As a man who claims God and says he adheres to His standards why did he not say that homosexuality is a sin and he would pray daily for the Spirit to transform the person through the saving grace of Jesus, because the homosexual lifestyle is one of despair, illness, and eventual condemnation by Holy God?

It is a paradox for Romney to say he wants his grandkids, if they turned out to be homosexuals, to be happy and in a peaceful relationship then say he would push for a constitutional amendment banning a legal relationship for them…wouldn’t that make them UNhappy?

People say all the time, choose the lesser of two evils. I don’t agree. Choosing the lesser of two evils means you are still choosing evil. Charles Spurgeon said, “When a Christian is faced with the choice between the lesser of two evils he should do neither.”

In the bible, should a person choose Jannes over Jambres? No. Both were condemned. Choose Ananias over Sapphira? No. Both were condemned. Why? They were both evil. God didn’t say, ‘I condemn the lesser of two evils’, He judged the evil. Period.

We vote for someone who we believe to the best of our diligent ability who will uphold Biblical principles and protect Constitutional government, regardless of that candidate’s perceived likelihood of prevailing. I sympathize with each and every mature Christian out there because I am agonizing over this as well. I know full well that there is no candidate out there who fully represents and lives out biblical principles. There are few enough who even appear moral.

Randy Alcorn wrote in part 1 of a series he began regarding this election, “Honestly, I am deeply concerned about this election, but not excited about it. I have very little faith in politics. Republican and Democratic administrations have combined together in the last forty years to establish a staggering track record of economic, personal and moral irresponsibility. They’ve proven themselves poor stewards of our country. And in many ways we have proven ourselves poor citizens and stewards.”

Here is a response by the pastors over at Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry to the question “Politics, Mormonism, and Christians.” The last few paragraphs get to the meat of the matter.

Here is another essay answering the question, “Should a Christian vote for a Mormon?“

Hopefully, some of the resources I’ve posted on this issue here and at the other blog entry may help you clarify your thinking. My thinking on the matter is clarified. And it was completely clarified last night before I changed my mind today. I am not settled on this by a long shot.

Lord, I not only pray for wisdom to make a God-honoring decision, I admit I also pray for the rapture so that we can be settled at your feet, enjoying a perfect theocracy once and for all. No voting necessary.

Posted in mormon, white horse prophecy

Mitt Romney and the Mormon white horse prophecy

Posted on by elizabethprata
An alert reader wanted to know about the Mormon so-called “White Horse Prophecy” and whether this prophecy should impact a voter’s decision regarding Mr Mitt Romney this November 6th one way or another.

The White Horse Prophecy is a prophecy that was allegedly made by Mormon “prophet” Joseph Smith.

It is a belief ingrained in Mormon culture and passed down through generations by church leaders that the day would come when the U.S. Constitution would “hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber” and the Mormon priesthood would save it, as Salon.com described it, and the Salt Lake Tribune wrote in 2007 when Romney first ran, “In the latter days, the story goes, the U.S. Constitution will hang by a thread and a Mormon will ride in on a metaphorical white horse to save it.”

The prophecy was claimed to have been taught by Joseph Smith in 1840-43 but not revealed until a diary entry by John Roberts was discovered that had been written in 1902, more than 60 years after the fact. Due to the difficulty in authenticating the prophecy and its origins, the LDS church rejects it as doctrine and most Mormons do not believe in it. As they say.

Salon.com’s most interesting article about Mitt Romney and the alleged White Horse prophecy is from earlier this year. Here are some excerpts, but I suggest you read the entire article. It discusses one of the reasons Mormonism was founded, which was to take the government back and institute Mormons in government offices. The goal was the White House. Joseph Smith was shot and killed in Washington DC as he campaigned on this platform.

“Romney avoids mentioning it, but [Joseph] Smith ran for president in 1844 as an independent commander in chief of an “army of God” advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government in favor of a Mormon-ruled theocracy. Challenging Democrat James Polk and Whig Henry Clay, Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands that “they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.” Smith viewed capturing the presidency as part of the mission of the church. He had predicted the emergence of “the one Mighty and Strong” — a leader who would “set in order the house of God” — and became the first of many prominent Mormon men to claim the mantle.”

“Smith’s insertion of religion into politics and his call for a “theodemocracy where God and people hold the power to conduct the affairs of men in righteous matters” created a sensation and drew hostility from the outside world. But his candidacy was cut short when he was shot to death by an anti-Mormon vigilante mob. Out of Smith’s national political ambitions grew what would become known in Mormon circles as the “White Horse Prophecy” — a belief ingrained in Mormon culture and passed down through generations by church leaders that the day would come when the U.S. Constitution would “hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber” and the Mormon priesthood would save it.

“Moody is a seventh-generation Mormon, steeped in the same intellectual and theological milieu [as Romney, who is also 7th generation Mormon].

“We were taught that America is the Promised Land,” Moody said in an interview.” The Mormons are the Chosen People. And the time is now for a Mormon leader to usher in the second coming of Christ and install the political Kingdom of God in Washington, D.C.”

“In this scenario, Romney’s candidacy is part of the eternal plan and the candidate himself is fulfilling the destiny begun in what the church calls the “pre-existence.”

“Several prominent Mormons, including conservative talk-show host Glenn Beck, have alluded to this apocalyptic prophecy. The controversial myth is not an official church doctrine, but it has also arisen in the national dialogue with the presidential candidacies of Mormons George Romney, Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, and now Mitt Romney.”

The question is, does Mitt Romney view the American presidency as a theological office? He says no. He says he does not believe in the White Horse Prophecy.

The Salt Lake Tribune covered the Romney campaign in 2007. Once again, these are excerpts only.

(2007) Romney candidacy has resurrected last days prophecy of Mormon saving the Constitution

WASHINGTON – It’s Mormon lore, a story passed along by some old-timers about the importance of their faith and their country. In the latter days, the story goes, the U.S. Constitution will hang by a thread and a Mormon will ride in on a metaphorical white horse to save it. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says it does not accept the legend – commonly referred to as the “White Horse Prophecy” – as doctrine.

The issue, however, has been raised on those occasions when Mormons have sought the Oval Office: George Romney was asked about it during his bid in 1968, Sen. Orrin Hatch discussed it when he ran in 2000, and now Mitt Romney. “It is being raised,” says Phil Barlow, a professor of Mormon history and culture at Utah State University. “I’ve heard it a bit lately.”
Romney says he doesn’t believe in the supposed prophecy, nor did his father when he ran.
“I haven’t heard my name associated with it or anything of that nature,” Mitt Romney told The Salt Lake Tribune during an interview earlier this year. “That’s not official church doctrine. There are a lot of things that are speculation and discussion by church members and even church leaders that aren’t official church doctrine. I don’t put that at the heart of my religious belief.”

The disputed prophecy was recorded in a diary entry of a Mormon who had heard the tale from two men who were with Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, Ill. when he supposedly declared the prophecy.

“You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed,” the diary entry quotes Smith as saying. “It will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber.”

Not only will the Mormons save the Constitution, under the prediction, but the prophecy goes further, insinuating that Mormons will control the government. “Power will be given to the White Horse to rebuke the nations afar off, and you obey it, for the laws go forth from Zion,” the prophecy says.

So, what are Christians to make of this? Will we be putting America at risk by voting for Romney? Is there anything to this prophecy? The Washington Post published an article on October 9th which clearly shows that evangelicals are mighty skittish about Mr Romney:

“Evangelical leaders worried that Mitt Romney’s Mormonism could suppress conservative turnout on Election Day are intensifying appeals for Christians to vote. In poll after poll, evangelicals have overwhelmingly said they would back the Republican presidential nominee despite theological differences with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. But what had been thought of as a hypothetical question for American evangelicals for years, Southern Baptist leader Al Mohler said recently, is now a reality with this election and is being tested in a contest that will likely be decided by slim margins. “The fact is that Mitt Romney is a Mormon, and many of our people are very, very uncomfortable about voting for a Mormon, as I am. I supported somebody else in the primary. But, hey, we have no option,” said Steve Strang, an influential Pentecostal publisher, in a conference call with pastors last week.”

Personally I believe not. First of all, Mormonism is not a Christian religion, so any prophecies coming from their leaders is not from Jesus. Jeremiah 28:9 gives the barometer of true versus false prophets: “But the prophet who prophesies peace will be recognized as one truly sent by the Lord only if his prediction comes true” (Jer. 28:9).” Ezekiel 33:33 says the same. Since Mr Smith has many failed prophesies then we can confidently say that his words are not from the Lord.

Deuteronomy 13:3 warns us not to listen to the false prophets.

But it does seem that the Constitution IS hanging by a thread…and if Romney gets in to the White House that the Mormons will seize on the moment and institute a false…something. Maybe so, maybe that will exactly happen. Or not.

We can be sure that whoever gets in to the White House, if we are not raptured by then or of Obama doesn’t institute martial law and simply stop the election, or refuses to vacate the White House in January, or any other scenario, GOD IS IN CONTROL.

There are many prophecies in the world. Will the world end in December 2012 as the Mayan Long Count prophecy seems to indicate? Do we change our routine or decisions based on the Mayan Doom prophecy? Of course not. We know there will be 7 years of Tribulation and then 1000 years of peace before the world passes away, so again the Mayan prophecy is false and the Lord is true. It is the same with the Mormon White Horse prophecy. Do we alter our decision making based on a false prophecy? Of course not. We look to the bible and see what it may say about choosing leaders, or about our participation in government, but we don’t do or not do something because of what a false prophet has said.

(Personally I resent any comparison of anyone or anything to the White Horse of Rev 19:11 that Jesus rides to smite the sinners and save the world. NONE but Jesus will ride a White Horse to the world’s rescue!!!)

Daniel 2:21 assures us that “He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding). We are not citizens of this world. If God chooses to judge America by removing our liberties, then He will do so. He may use the vehicle of Obama to do it. If He wants to judge us by allowing a harlot religion to flourish, then He may do so, using the vehicle of Romney to do it. We don’t know, but we love the LORD and His ways. His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8-9)

All we have to do is remember our accountability to Him. We need to vote for the man or woman who best will fulfill their job, ethically and morally. We are on the road to serious, destructive, damning sin. Do we vote for a man who exemplifies sin and has done so for the last four years in everything he says and does? Or do we vote for a man who has a track record of selfless service, generosity, charity, and morals? Or do we want to vote for another person who is not of the main parties who more closely aligns with your own doctrines or political ideology? It is for each individual Christian to decide, but in all, we give an account to God for our decision. Make it wisely, prayerfully.

He will work ALL to His good and glory. “And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.” (Romans 8:28). False prophesies are just that, false. Read Ezekiel 13:1-16 for the word on how God will deal with false prophets who spout false prophecies. We need not worry about that. All we need do is remember that God will set up in His government whom He wants, regardless of our vote. What we are voting for is not the outcome but the opportunity to make a good account to the Lord.

Posted in afterlife, eben alexander, jesus, NDE, near death experience

Afterlife exists says top brain surgeon

Posted on by elizabethprata

Afterlife exists says top brain surgeon
“Dr Eben Alexander, a Harvard-educated neurosurgeon, fell into a coma for seven days in 2008 after contracting meningitis. During his illness Dr Alexander says that the part of his brain which controls human thought and emotion “shut down” and that he then experienced “something so profound that it gave me a scientific reason to believe in consciousness after death.” In an essay for American magazine Newsweek, which he wrote to promote his book Proof of Heaven, Dr Alexander says he was met by a beautiful blue-eyed woman in a “place of clouds, big fluffy pink-white ones” and “shimmering beings.”

Why does it make the news when some British brain dead doctor wakes up and says he saw heaven but when Jesus, in front of witnesses, died and rose again, in front of witnesses, the world yawns? Just think about that for a minute.

I am sad for the doctor. And he wrote a whole book called “Proof of Heaven” ??!! Jesus wrote a whole book – the bible – which is proof of heaven.

The man’s medically induced, hospital-drug involved experience in no way proves heaven. He experienced something. It wasn’t heaven. The man’s brain was swelled up, neurologically destroyed for a period, and drugs were keeping him alive. Anything could be happening in his brain at that moment! His experience is proof of nothing.

If you notice all the people who say they have been brought to heaven, their visions do not line up with what the bible says. The doctor saw cotton-candy clouds, and women angels (not biblical) but NOT Jesus? If he is saved, the man would be with Jesus. (2 Corinthians 5:6-8a). If he was not saved, he would not be in heaven.

What did Ezekiel see? God (Ezek. 1:26)
What did Daniel see? God (Dan. 7:9)
What did Isaiah see? God ((Isa. 6:1)
What did Jacob see? God (Gen. 28:12, 13)
What did Stephen see? Jesus (Acts 7:55)
What did John see? God (Rev. 4:2)
What did Micaiah see? God. (2 Chron. 18:18)
What did Paul see? He wasn’t allowed to say!

Not only do these trips to heaven not line up with the bible, they do not line up with each other. No one, like Colton Burpo or Don Piper or this doctor etc., saw the same things as each other. They each saw different things.

Now satan, who is a liar and the father if lies, wants to delude someone, wouldn’t you think he could give an unsaved person a vision and delude them into thinking they saw heaven and are headed there? That they are all set and do not need Jesus for salvation? Which is more likely: Jesus giving tours of heaven which differ from each other, or satan, father of lies deluding people into thinking they are saved by giving them a false vision?

Here is a good 15-min video of a discernment minister named Justin Peters explaining why these ‘visits to the afterlife’ and visions of heaven are false.

Justin Peters Explains Why Stories of Trips To Heaven Do Not Line up With the Bible

Sorry to burst your bubble, people.. 🙂 We want to be excited, but we have to be discerning.

Posted in end time, judgment, prophecy, revelation

Why is there silence in heaven for half an hour?

Posted on by elizabethprata

Here is some news that caught my eye. Prophetic mention after each news excerpt and a prophetic discussion below.

Raccoons taking over, hissing at New Yorkers
“A turf battle of sorts is taking place in some neighborhoods. Raccoons are invading. They’re getting into garbage cans, backyards and even breaking into homes. And what’s more, these resourceful raccoons are outsmarting the most determined of trappers, CBS 2’s Dave Carlin reported. Clinton Hill, Brooklyn resident Susan DeBrango snapped pictures of the suspects, their faces masked, trying to get inside her home. “They are adorable but not in your backyard when they impact your life,” DeBrango said. “When he saw at me he stood up on two legs and hissed at me.” They are getting more brazen on Washington Avenue, rummaging through trash, and running right up to neighbors. One even went face-to-face with Barbara Mattocks on her own front stoop. “I don’t want that feeling ever again. I was petrified,” Mattocks said. It’s gotten so bad, one 3-year-old Maltese named ‘Snowball,’ who used to love to play outside, is now a prisoner in his own home, according to his owner. “He refuses to go out in the yard,” Mattocks said.

One of the coming judgments will be the plague of animals. When the Pale Horse of death is unleashed, authority is given to “kill [a fourth of the earth] with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.” (Rev 6:6-8). A quarter of the earth will die from 4 methods and one of them will be by animal. [shudder]

Scientist predicts major earthquake in Middle East The Middle East may not possess the same reputation for seismic disasters as some other parts of the world, but that is of little comfort to the people of north-west Iran, over 300 of whom were killed when a twin earthquake struck the country’s mountainous region earlier this year. Destroying villages and injuring many thousands, the two six-plus magnitude quakes – striking the same location north-east of the city of Tabriz and spaced just 11 minutes apart – were among the worst to hit Iran since 2003, when an earthquake killed 25,000 people in the city of Bam. … We fear that a major earthquake in the Holy Land is imminent,” says Marco, whose research led him to conclude that following four major earthquakes in the region some 300 to 400 years apart in roughly the first millennium, the last 1,000 years of quiescence are a matter of grave concern for all in the Holy Land.”

“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.” (Matthew 24:7).

God has always used earthquakes to warn, to judge, to demonstrate His power. It will be the same, but even more so, in the Tribulation.

Universe Today: Curiosity Finds…SOMETHING…on Martian Surface

“While scooping its first samples of Martian soil, NASA’s Curiosity rover captured the image above, which shows what seems to be a small, seemingly metallic sliver or chip of… something… resting on the ground. Is it a piece of the rover? Or some other discarded fleck of the MSL descent mechanisms? Or perhaps an exotic Martian pebble of some sort? Nobody knows for sure yet, but needless to say the soil samples have taken a back seat to this new finding for the time being.”

Large asteroid to pass by earth Friday Morning “An asteroid the size of a 7-to-10 story office building is expected to slide past the Earth early Friday at an altitude of 35,000 miles from the surface. The asteroid, designated 2012 TC4, was discovered less than a week ago by scientists. Experts said they do not expect any adverse effects from the asteroid. According to NASA, the 20-to-30 meter wide asteroid will pass Earth at 20 percent of the distance from the Earth to the moon, or 0.2 LD.”

Just discovered a week ago?!?! Passing by with a few miles? Oy.

The bible says “And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken.” (Luke 21:25-26).

Personally I think the thing on Mars is a chip or a flake from Curiosity flying off in the descent. It is a stretch to say that the news of ‘something’ on Mars is a sign, because it isn’t, but it certainly does add to the sense of foreboding, and enhances the public’s proclivity to see aliens around every corner and conspiracy theories behind every water cooler. Especially when asteroids pop up out of nowhere. The truth is, society IS perplexed and in a state of foreboding, so news like this will only rattle the cages and pound the hearts all the more.

You know that war between Syria and Turkey is one mortar away, don’t you? Turkey has the 2nd largest army in NATO, after the US. Turks and Syrians have been exchanging shelling for over a week, Turkey is still burning due to Syria shooting down the Turkish war plane earlier this summer, and troops on both sides are mobilizing at the border. Syria’s Assad is thinking of making a national call-up to all soldiers. If they go to war, NATO will get involved. If NATO gets involved, the US will too. We’re part of NATO.

Turkish president says “worst case” unfolding in Syria “Turkish President Abdullah Gul said on Monday the “worst-case scenarios” were now playing out in Syria and Turkey would do everything necessary to protect itself, as its army fired back for a sixth day after a shell from Syria flew over the border. Gul said the violence in Turkey’s southern neighbor, where a revolt against President Bashar al-Assad has evolved into a civil war that threatens to draw in regional powers, could not go on indefinitely and Assad’s fall was inevitable. “The worst-case scenarios are taking place right now in Syria … Our government is in constant consultation with the Turkish military. Whatever is needed is being done immediately as you see, and it will continue to be done,” Gul said.”

The bible says, “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.” (Matthew 24:6) “And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword.” (Revelation 6:4).

These are signs of the end, in one way or another. But people who mock and scoff say, ‘Wars and rumors of wars and earthquakes have always happened! And the raccoons are probably either rabid or sick! And so what there’s a metal flake was on Mars, that has nothing to do with anything!”

This kind of denial is rampant. It is also easy to deny because the quakes and animals and wars, though more intense and frequent, are “normal.” Even the catastrophes in Revelation 6 during the Tribulation are “normal” insofar as the society of those that dwell on the earth will explain them away just as people are attempting to do now. Bah, they will say, Wars and quakes and storms and disease are part of life on earth. But then Revelation 8 happens…

“When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.” (Revelation 8:1-5).

Why the silence? And what does that have to do with hissing raccoons, earthquakes, and Turkish war drums? Learn the Bible says, “There is a distinction between the seven seals [of Revelation 6] and the seven trumpets that indicates a shift in God’s dealings with man in the midst of the tribulation period. The seven seals bring judgment through either manmade or seemingly natural events. They are the judgment of God, but could be dismissed as natural events. The seven trumpets, on the other hand, are clearly supernatural in cause. They are clearly the pouring out of God’s wrath upon the earth. Revelation 8 describes a pause in heaven before this shift in judgment occurs.”

The essay at LTB goes on to describe more on why there is silence and what it has to do with worship. It is a good article, and sobering.

Do not wait for those times to repent. Repent now. Believe on the name of Jesus and the sacrifice for sins and which was accepted by God. God was pleased to crush His Son: “Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.’ (Isaiah 53:10).

The name of Jesus is the only name by which ye may be saved. “And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)