Tag: discernment

Posted in theology

‘Unite Georgia’ Crusade Event in Athens: Some Thoughts

Posted on by elizabethprata

By Elizabeth Prata

Note: Podcast episode cuts off mid sentence, I forgot to check the 30 min time limit.. But it’s close enough to the end I let it stay.

Me: I wasn’t going to write about it but now I can’t seem NOT to write about it.

Observer: How could you have negative thoughts on an event that brought thousands youth in one place to hear about Jesus, pray, confess, and be baptized?! Are you crazy? Or just a Pharisee?

Me: Neither, but let’s unroll this and see what you think afterward.

On April 3, an event called UniteUS was held in the city of Athens GA at Stegeman Coliseum. It attracted college kids, thousands of them, to hear preaching and music from the Passion music group (Passion as in the Passion Conferences). False teacher Jennie Allen had been invited to preach. There was also preaching from JP Pokluda. Afterwards hundreds of kids were invited down the aisle to decide for Jesus, and many others sought baptism, which was accommodated by bringing the kids to a parking lot stationed with pickup trucks filled with water.

Jennie Allen baptizing youths in a truck.

Observer: Why do you say Jennie is false? She founded IF:Gathering for heaven’s sake, a globally successful parachurch ministry!

Me: Jennie is false because her catalyst for founding her parachurch IF:Gathering was based on a direct revelation. In her words, “a voice from the sky” ordered her to “gather and equip this generation”. (Too bad for past and coming generations, I guess?) Sadly, Jennie’s IF movement preaches a twisted hermeneutic, models an unbiblical lifestyle, and is saturated with a Gospel of doubt: their tagline says ‘IF God exists, then what?’

Observer: But, but, but Jennie’s message in Athens GA was so good! She “spoke about the dangers of social media and comparison and encouraged the audience to be open to each other about the things they have been hiding in their lives“, SO apt for these kids! You Pharisee. God can do anything with anyone!

Me: I agree Allen’s speech about social media is a good topic. But it’s not a sermon and it’s not the Gospel. And, yes He can do anything with anyone. He did with Saul/Paul the murdering Pharisee. But why did the demon possessed slave girl who was speaking something true, aggravate Paul so much? (Acts 16:17-18). Why didn’t he let her continue following and hollering? Because God doesn’t need truth to come from lying lips and rebels.

To continue- The UniteUS event organizers’ About page state they have 3 goals for their events,

SALVATION
For non-believers to hear a clear presentation of the Gospel in a welcoming environment. Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9

FREEDOM
For believers to know and experience true freedom from sin and burdens on their hearts. Galatians 5:1

COMMUNITY
For students to find community and discipleship through connection to local ministries and the local church. Ephesians 4:1-6.

Observer: These are good goals! It’s “a night of Christian worship, prayer and motivational speaking!” We need more motivational speaking in evangelicalism. And more environments that are “welcoming”!

Me: Beth Moore started as a motivational speaker. And look how that turned out. I’d love to know what the organizers mean by saying the Gospel will be given in an environment that’s “welcoming”. Past history shows that usually means the potency of sin is overlooked or diminished and the dire necessity of confession and repentance is whitewashed.

Beth Moore preaching to Transformation Church June 2, 2019. slide to 2:41.

The Founder of UniteUS is Tonya Prewitt, wife of Auburn University Basketball Coach Chad Prewitt. “After hearing students stories about battles with anxiety, suicidal thoughts, and addiction, Prewitt said she felt like she needed something to help.” (Source)

Indeed, University of Georgia students have had a difficult time this spring semester, with a suicide of a popular boy, and the killing of girl near the campus. Crime in general is up in the city. The world’s social and emotional pressures are tremendous upon youths more than ever before.

They do need our support and guidance. But not en masse preaching from a female rebel and an emotional approach to resolving life’s difficulties. Jesus is not a patch ‘to help’ people overcome emotional depression.

I’ve written before about the Passion Conference (and also here) which bans adults from attending and manipulates kids with emotional music;

and the

Urbana Conferences, where hundreds heard David Platt speak and at the end he had them repeat a prayer, and the youths signaled their profession of newfound faith (which speakers affirmed) with a glow stick.

In an interview about the Florida State University event held this past February, the local UniteUs organizer concluded, “They came forward in droves tonight to trust Jesus.”

[The End Time: Are There too Many Conferences?]

The problem at these youth-aimed conferences is with decisional regeneration. It seems that UniteUS is in the same vein. “Choosing to follow” or “deciding for Christ” or “inviting Jesus in” have become synonymous with the supernatural act of Godly justification. They’re not the same thing.

And now here’s another ‘movement’ or ‘revival’ as Prewitt calls it (remember the Asbury Revival on another college campus?). Prewitt’s ultimate goal with this movement is “to unite the nation.”

Observer: What beef do you have with women in ministry? Are you a misogynist or something?

Me: The Bible calls women to keep her sphere to the family if possible, to the local church, and to resist stepping out in leadership. Why is it that women who are moms and wives are not content to persist in ministering to their family or locals, but must be founders of massive movements with lofty goals like ‘unite the nation’, or ‘disciple this generation‘ or be ‘a woman who leads and believes you were made to lead‘? Whatever happened to ‘Be a mom’?

Prewitt has said, “When your faith is strong and you trust God to do big things. Big things are going to happen and we’ve just seen that” [at Auburn’s UniteUS event]”

Why is it that these non-Titus ladies desire “big things” like large platforms but not the REAL big things like, a child’s justification…a strong, beautiful marriage modeling mutual submission, a prayerful devotional at home…honoring elderly parents… why do the “big things” always seem to mean to these non-Titus ladies, high profile and filled arenas?

Let’s take a look at UniteUS founder Tonya Prewitt:

“My husband was probably as far from God as you could be and it’s like when we met I knew he was supposed to be my husband…”

God has said not to yoke with unbelievers. What was she doing with dating a person who she admits was so far from God? If he was unsaved he was not “supposed to be” a husband to a believer. (2 Corinthians 6:14)

Later, Prewitt said Chad would not go to church but he would go to a concert, so she took him to a Christian Concert where they did an altar call at the end. Chad went forward and decided for Christ. “It changed his life and he went in full on with God.” So THAT’S where she gets the idea that mass decisional regeneration events are acceptable ways to convert.

Oh, I should have waited a second, because she says exactly that in the next video frame:

“Even what happened at Auburn is almost a correlation of what we saw with him [Chad], in that you you can take somebody as far going as him, but an event like that can sometimes be an encounter that changes someone’s lives for eternity.”

In an interview, Tonya Prewitt named herself as “a mom and a spiritual mom” when describing her former ministry to young girls on campus. Initially counseling 5 young women though discipling and prayer, something the Bible applauds and expects of older women, within one year she founded a multi-state organization and now adds to her named jobs of mom and spiritual mom, “Incorporator and Director of a non-profit business entity in the State of Alabama.”

UNITEUS is an Alabama Domestic Non-Profit Corporation filed on November 16, 2023. The company’s filing status is listed as Exists and its File Number is 001-108-449. Source Alabama Secretary of State.

Yet the Bible says we are told to live quietly, “encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.” (Titus 2:4b-5).

Did you know that ‘God’ gave Tonya a vision for revival and for thousands of youths filling arenas?

Tonya said on one interview, she was praying with students “for revival…God gave me a vision for thousands of students gathered in Auburn’s arena.”

In another interview, she said “God gave me a vision ahead of time of what was to come and I’ll tell you this; I have a vision for what’s coming even greater than what we witnessed on September 12th. Nationally… globally… something so big that is coming it’s going to hit our college campuses.” (Source)

“I saw the students gathered, I saw the worship, but I didn’t see the baptisms that were coming. It was really cool because God didn’t show me the full vision. I could have messed that up and gotten in the way of it” (source).

Yes, because puny humans who are given direct revelation from God are powerful enough to thwart His plans. Oy.

Apparently Tonya is not only a biblical visionary but a prophetess too:

“About a year before Unite took place, we were sitting in small group one night and I just stood up and I looked at the girls and I said ‘Something so big is coming a year from now and you’re going to be part of it.’ What’s coming? and my co-leader said ‘What’s coming?’ and I said ‘I don’t know all I can tell you is something so big is coming. I feel it.” (Source).

“God could and only the spirit of God could draw all of these students into this Arena.” (Source)

Observer: See?! And it came true. Ha.

Me: No, Satan draws them too. Not “only” God. Just because the event worked out like she wanted it to does not mean necessarily it is of God. In fact, the numbers are usually small when it comes to a real move of God. Noah’s 7. Lot and 2 daughters. The crowds left Jesus and would not follow any more. (John 6:66). Only 5 were at the cross with Jesus when He died.

Prewitt said she emphasizes getting plugged into a local church, so “we had every campus ministry, every local church represented at our event so students could go to the back into the Concourse and get plugged in to a church.” (Source)

Hm, including the Auburn Catholic Campus Ministry, the college ministry of St. Michael the Archangel Parish? And the Adventist Christian Fellowship Auburn Chapter of the 7th Day Adventist Church? And the local Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on College Avenue? Those campus ministries and local churches also had a table on the Concourse kids could sign onto?

Observer: They have the right approach, for sure.

Students at UniteUS at Florida State U, Feb 15, 2024

Me: Well…not so fast. First, I wonder HOW the organization links thousands of bouncing, burbling, emotionally high students with local churches on the spot before they wander off. Secondly, this approach has not been too successful in the past. Some Parachurches like Walk to Emmaus/Chrysalis compete with local churches to deliberately draw away congregants, or like IF:Gathering, they become a sort of substitute church all on their own.

(FYI: The End Time The Problem with Parachurch Organizations is…)

Also, remember Billy Graham Crusades? You might be too young. But Graham was a global itinerant preacher who gathered hundreds of thousands to huge arenas and preached. He called people forward at the end of his sermons where endless choruses of the song Just As I am played, to make a decision for Christ (language never in the Bible). Counselors were stationed at the bottom to counsel seekers who flooded down by the hundreds. Except, Graham had Jewish rabbis and Catholic priests there to counsel folks back to their own ‘church’ where they’d be returned in the same state of non-belief they were in before.

It should be noted that Cecil Andrews said in his video called, “The Man and His Message” about Billy Graham’s Crusades, “I know of a number of men who do door-to-door work in Northern Ireland. They constantly come across people whose view is ‘Oh I made a decision at a Billy Graham Crusade, but I don’t go to church now. I haven’t gone for years.’ But yet somehow or other they’re relying on this emotional response they made 30 or 40 years ago. Yet they would have gone down as one of the people who went forward as an ‘Inquirer’ and they would be viewed rightly or wrongly by others as fruit.”

Sadly, it’s reported at a recent UniteUS crusade, that:

“We ended up having hundreds of students walk forward to receive salvation,” Denning said. “And then almost 300 students got baptized in our Westcott Fountain, in the front of our campus.” (Source).

So it’s the same all over again. The way is NARROW. It’s a turnstile, not a mass event.

Photo by Vlad B on Unsplash

This turnstile only takes one at a time. It is exclusive from the start. It is intensely personal. You can’t be born into it. You can’t join the church and sort of be swept in with the crowd. It is intensely personal. It is intensely individual. It is you and you alone. All our life prior to coming through that gate we ran with the crowd, but when we came through the gate we came alone. Many others have come, but they came alone. Salvation is an individual miracle. You don’t go through a turnstile in groups. You go through by yourself.” John MacArthur, on the Narrow Gate sermon “The Way to Heaven.”

I’m suspicious of conferences aimed at youth. I feel protective of children and youth, and college students are children. These mass conferences tend to be filled with false teachers, false gospels, emotionalism, and affirming declarations of faith in an instant rather than careful scrutiny and waiting to see if actual fruit develops. I’ve written about this before-

Urbana15 and other large conferences are false Christian-making factories

Tonya Prewitt, who claims visions from God and utters prophecies in the midst of a gathering, who states she served formerly as a Youth Pastor and as a Deacon, discontent with ministering to 5 and now wants 5000, who hires Jennie Allen to preach; lacks discernment and should NOT be organizing events for thousands of emotionally worn, spiritually floundering youth.

While I admire Tonya Prewitt’s desire for youth to have comfort in their life difficulties, putting forward a goal of “uniting the US” is not what the Bible calls women to do.

Observer: You’re just a Negative Nellie Debbie Downer, aren’t you? You have a critical spirit!

Me: I always bring things back to the Bible. Women are to be tending the home, at home, raising the children if the Lord gave any to her, ministering to the husband as helpmeet, and doing good in the community. (Proverbs 31, Titus 2, Genesis 2:18, Proverbs 29:15, 1 Timothy 5:14). She should have a reputation for local good works and again, be primarily oriented for the home.

Nothing in the Bible shows women gallivanting off to found revival movements to unite the entire world. Not even the unique time of the first century church. Lydia hosted gatherings in her home. Dorcas didn’t run off from region to region gathering women into the Areopagus or Solomon’s portico to “change their lives.” She sewed garments for the poor. Do we hear of Mary Magdalene (allegedly the first evangelist?) after the moment at the tomb? (John 20:18). No. Not one mention after that. No Billy Graham-like Crusades for her.

Observer: You gave me a lot to think about. I’ll read some of the links you posted. I still think you don’t have to throw cold water on everything. Maybe some of those kids were actually saved.

Me: Maybe some were. And maybe a lot more weren’t but THINK they were, which is worse. The name of Jesus is the most important name in the universe and salvation is the most important event ever. We must be careful and see if these things are so. Always look at the founder’s testimony and lifestyle, and also see what she says, not just what she does. Compare to the Bible. If she claims direct revelation, utters extra-biblical prophecies, or lives a lifestyle the Bible doesn’t allow for her point in life, avoid her and her ministry.

The Good News is available in any church, THE welcoming place Jesus established for people to confess, repent, and be saved. THE place to discuss a growing conviction of sin and sort out what it all means, in the quietude of a conversation with a knowledgeable, wise believer or pastor. What an eternal shame it would be for these college kids to grow up, relying on their emotional response they made 30 or 40 years ago when they face the Lord Jesus on Judgment day, only to discover Matthew 7:21 applied to them

 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Posted in theology

Easily offended, nursing wounds, and reveling in victimhood

Posted on by elizabethprata

By Elizabeth Prata

I sometimes highlight examples of women in the Bible who were a positive influence in the faith. I mention a few of them below. Alternately, I highlight less than positive examples of some women either in the Bible or walking around today, as an example of what not to do or to be like.

There are some “Bible teachers” and female “leaders” in today’s times who I am of the opinion are actually harming the faith and throwing mud on the name of Jesus. I scan their output in every once in a while and read some stuff they’ve put out there lately, albeit hands over my eyes peeking through horror movie fashion.

I did that yesterday morning with Aimee Byrd. Formerly co-host along with Todd Pruitt and Carl Trueman of the Mortification of Spin podcast, author, blogger, sometimes Sunday guest preacher, Aimee has had a long public history in the faith. To the negative.

A couple of years ago, Aimee loudly left her long-term denomination, Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC). Aimee is actually an ex-OPC mirror to ex-Southern Baptist Beth Moore, who also left her denomination loudly and badly. Both ladies left for what I personally see as the same reasons: refusal to submit to biblical gender roles.

Yesterday I read Aimee’s new essay “Messages of Shame”, where she publicly whined about decades-old comments she’d received, which she “put in the tomb with Jesus.” Her essay really only displayed the accuracy of those comments, some of which included her failure to listen, her pushiness, her unapproachability, and her resistance to correction.

I’m not great at accepting criticism or rebukes myself, so I understand the temptation to hold on to anger. But for her to be public with long-held resentment against people whose comments were probably off-hand or artless, failing to give grace or think the best of folks, shows an un-loving stance. It’s even worse when someone is looked upon as a leader or an influencer.

Her essay had no mention of Matthew 5:11, Proverbs 10:12, 1 Peter 4:8…

“Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.” (Matthew 5:11)

Hatred stirs up strife,
But love covers all transgressions. (Proverbs 10:12)

Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. (1 Peter 4:8).

And this too:

For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. (James 2:13).

Writing 20 years later of men who caused her “wounds” or whose comments were “violent” (allegedly, as she interprets it) for example, writing of a man who giggled at her, is as petty as Beth Moore complaining that no one acknowledged her in an elevator.

Believing women who actually possess the Holy Spirit in us, are strong. Look at Abigail in a brutal marriage. Jesus’ mother Mary seeing her Son die so excruciatingly. Esther. These are the women to model one’s self after. Not these paper kittens like Moore and Byrd.

In her essay, Byrd ‘threw’ these “messages of shame” into the tomb of Jesus. Using the tomb of Jesus as her personal trash can to throw what she interpreted as “sins” of others against her, not even her own sins, (20 year old comments, giggles, compliments) is log-in-eye arrogant.

Unfounded attacks are hard to take. So are gossip, slander, and insults. Well-founded rebukes are even harder, because they would our pride even more if they are true.

By God’s providence my devotional this morning touched on this very subject. Favell Lee Mortimer said in his Devotional Commentary on the Gospels:

“It is in this spirit that irreligious people judge those whom they call “evangelicals and saints.” They accuse them of hypocrisy, and of pride; they watch their conduct with an eagle’s eye, and triumph over their infirmities with a demon’s joy. Such people have a beam in their own eye. This beam prevents them from seeing their own sins. We may be assured, that if we do not see ourselves to be very great and miserable sinners, there is a beam of unbelief in our eyes which prevents our seeing it. While we cannot see our own sins, we cannot see the sins of others aright. What we call sins in them, perhaps are not sins. We do not know how to reprove until we have discovered what sinners we ourselves are. But when God, by his converting grace, takes the beam out of our eyes, then we may help our brother to overcome his sins. Then we shall warn him in a spirit of humility and love, feeling our own unworthiness, and anxious for his good.”

Ladies, don’t be easily offended. Don’t nurse victimhood. Forgive and move on. We are called to do that. I know that some comments hurt. I know that criticism or rebukes are hard to take. But the primary reason we do, and with grace, is because Jesus took them ALL. No one in history was more reviled, insulted, rebuked, spat upon, ‘wounded’ with REAL violence than the sinless, perfect, beautiful, truthful Jesus. You need to remember that, I need to remember that. When we receive remarks we interpret as disdainful or insulting, our flesh might want to allow to build resentment around.

Yet love takes many forms:

Better is open rebuke
Than love that is concealed.

Faithful are the wounds of a friend,
But deceitful are the kisses of an enemy.
Proverbs 27:5-6

Further reading

The End Time essay: Apostasy: We say goodbye to Aimee Byrd

RC Sproul recounts a time when malicious talk sent him into despondency. How Should Christians Respond to Attacks and Insults?

Sometimes when we THINK we have been attacked for doing good, when the opposite is really true. Tom Ascol for Ligonier: What Is Christian Persecution?

Posted in theology

Satan’s relentlessness

Posted on by elizabethprata

By Elizabeth Prata

I’d mentioned the famous quote from John Calvin as I concluded a recent series on idols and idolatry, that our hearts are idol factories. Our own flesh betrays us constantly. But add to that failure, satan’s pressure of constant temptation. (Idolatry series below)

Is “Trad wife/life” an idol?
What IS idolatry?
How to make an idol: Example, Nehushtan
Idolatry: Did you know of these two false gods?
Idolatry finale, roundup & resources

One must always be vigilant. I’d read a startling thought in Spurstowe’s book The Wiles of Satan. One of satan’s strategies is to tempt us. We know that. But an even wilier strategy is to “cease to tempt, or to feign flight.” Have you ever thought of that? It’s to provoke our pride. We SEEM to have won the battle. We think, ‘Oh great, I’ve got this temptation licked! I got the victory of that sin!’ But no. Just as we release our guard, satan comes back!

We see this satanic relentlessness in the Bible.

Example : The Demon Possessed slave girl. Acts 16:16-18a,

It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave woman who had a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing great profit to her masters by fortune-telling. She followed Paul and us and cried out repeatedly, saying, “These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you a way of salvation.” Now she continued doing this for many days.

Note that she did this “for many days”. Paul was greatly annoyed, the verse says. In the original Greek, the word greatly annoyed meant “exhausting, depleting grief which results in “piercing fatigue.” “

Satan relentlessly troubles us till we become so exhausted we either give in to the temptation or we destroy our witness with anger or some other un-Christian behavior. Oh, if we all had the same power Paul had to simply banish the demon away! But we don’t.

Example : Satan came to Jesus three times in the wilderness. Luke 4:1-13. Note that satan tempted Jesus in the first place! Satan’s arrogance is such that he thought he could tempt the Sinless One to sin! If satan opposed Jesus in this way, then for certain he and his minions will oppose you and me.

Of course satan couldn’t budge our Messiah, but note how he departed. Not in defeat, but in promise of continuing the battle:

13And so when the devil had finished every temptation, he left Him until an opportune time.

Satan is always prowling. (1 Peter 5:8). He roams to and fro upon the earth, Job 1:8 says. Satan has a God-given access to everything on the earth, and that includes people (wherever God said satan could go or as far as he could go). He tried to get at Job continually, but could not until God allowed satan to get increasing access to him. Job was probably the most perfect man on earth ever (not sinless, but morally upright). And that is why satan wanted him. God put a hedge of protection around Job…until He didn’t. No one on this here earth can expect continual protection from satan.

Our soul is safe if we are truly converted, but our heart can be tempted. When we fall into sin, especially a public sin, then satan, his minions, and the world rejoices, saying “There goes another hypocrite!”

1 Timothy 3:7 speaks of the importance of remaining above reproach for leaders. The reason being a leader’s reputation must glorify God. And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into disgrace and the snare of the devil.

The same is true for us women even though we are not leaders. We must maintain a good reputation. 1 Timothy 5:10, says we should be having a reputation for good works. This is because our reputation is not our own, but of Jesus in us.

Jesus protected Himself through prayer and fasting. One of satan’s tactics is to SEEM to let up on you but he is just biding his time to come at you again. Our own flesh even more so. Don’t let up! I do let up occasionally, to my own shame. But just because we are not being tempted at present, it is likely that the devil’s minion is simply releasing us to our own pride. He always waits for a more opportune time. Do not get snared!

Posted in Uncategorized

Hollow bunnies and solid food

Posted on by elizabethprata
bunny
Wikimedia Commons

By Elizabeth Prata

But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be … 5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. (2 Timothy 3: 1-2,5).

As a kid on Easter morning in a secular household, it was all about the basket. The eggs, the chocolate, and toys. Even the fake green grass. Our baskets were always generously filled, and I especially loved the centerpiece of a large chocolate bunny on the mound of grass.

As a kid, if you see a 5 inch chocolate bunny you get very excited. You don’t think about how much to eat or not eat, you don’t think about the appropriate time of the day to eat it. You just rip the cellophane and chomp.

I remember being disappointed that the bunny was hollow. As a kid, I could not tell the difference between a solid bunny and a hollow one, they looked the same to my immature eyes. But when I bit into the ear it seemed to be a total gyp when it crumbled to bits because it had no interior support. The bunny had only a form of solidity.

We are told over and over in the Bible that the last days would be filled with deception, false pastors and false prophets, wolves in sheep’s clothing, antichrists, false apostles, false doctrine … and are repeatedly warned not to fall for it.

How can we tell if a bunny is solid chocolate or hollow? Test by eating it, you say? Satan is poison, his deceptions are poison. Who wants to eat poison? Ingesting falsity for too long will inevitably pollute. As mature Christians, we must be able to discern and detect hollow Christianity and false teachers who only have an appearance of Godliness early on, before it permeates the entire congregation, or our own heart.

Are you a child in Christ, seemingly mature but having fallen out of the habit of testing the scriptures for yourselves? Have you lost the ability to test the spirits? Are you, yourself hollow? Professing a form of godliness but denying its power? Have you departed from the spiritual disciplines of prayer, reading the word, giving, fellowship, and gathering with saints for worship? Abandoning these will hollow youout.

bunny2
Free to Use

Ephesians 4:14 tells us not to be babes. “Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.”

Pray for experience, wisdom, and discernment through a healthy relationship with the Holy Spirit.

Let us be mature, our faith be solid. We should not have only a veneer of godliness but be solid to the core, strong, with the interior support of the Holy Spirit. A counterfeit Christianity will reveal the person to be a child, rushing toward something that looks oh so good to eat but biting into the hollowness to be disappointed, but perhaps already hooked by its tastiness. Do not be a baby in discernment! Do not be hollow in faith!

But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil. (Hebrews 5:14).

The word of God is a sure way to stay close to Jesus and grow in faith to mature, solid Christians, who in turn extend a hand to new babes in Christ and help them along. And so it goes.

Posted in theology

Jenny Weaver: Discerning her ‘ministry’

Posted on by elizabethprata

By Elizabeth Prata

Today I’m talking about Jenny Weaver of ‘Jenny Weaver Worships’. She came to my attention when I was asked about her ministry. I looked into it and answered the reader’s query. Then I dug in even further. This is what I discovered.

Jenny Weaver. Youtube profile picture.

Cut to the Chase:

Avoid Jenny weaver. She’s false.

About Jenny

To begin with, who is Jenny Weaver? Weaver has 212,000 followers on Instagram, 167,000 on Facebook, 149,000 subscribers on Youtube. Her events sell out to masses. She became known as Jenny Weaver Worships because she is at root, a musician. She sings the scriptures.

She is said to have spiked a “massive Jesus movement.” But is this movement of Jesus? Let’s look into this ‘massive movement’ (that I never heard of till now).

Origins

Jenny, daughter Cameron, and husband Stephen in 2020 thanking God that their ministry is also a business that kept them afloat during the C0vid time. Source Weaver FB Page

Jenny Grew up on the Gulf coast of Florida in a family of 8 with a mother and father who Jenny said were excessively strict and punished at the slightest provocation. They also both used heroin, including when the mother was pregnant with Jenny. Jenny was born addicted. At age 13 her father abandoned the family and the remaining family became severely impoverished.

Subsequently, Jenny was entranced by witchcraft, reading up on Wicca and practicing the witchcraft arts. She says she became so good she could perform telekinesis (ability to move objects by mental power), saying she could extend her hand to a bureau drawer and it would open. Or lights would burst above her and shower down glass when she was talking about the demonic realm.

At age 17 Jenny ran away from home. She began heavy drug use. She couch surfed with a family whose daughter was into the demonic realm via witchcraft, and Jenny circled further down into it. She says she could feel demons all around. Instead of the practice being fun she now began to feel tormented with no escape.

Sometime later she finally quit the witchcraft but continued to be demonically tormented for years, Jenny says. Her drug use continued. When she was 26 she was living with her boyfriend Stephen and addicted to meth. Reaching her lowest point, she screamed for Jesus to help her. She said after that she felt peace.

The help, she says, came 2 days later in the form of arrest and jail. In jail she discovered she was pregnant. She got clean, got prenatal care, got out, married Stephen Weaver, and got saved.

Yet…about that salvation…in her book “The Sound of Freedom: How to Bring the God of the Breakthrough into Your Toughest Struggles“, she says at age 6 she was at a Pentecostal revival and the pastor there singled her out, called her to the front, laid hands on her and she was suddenly slain in the spirit and fell backwards. Getting up off the floor she says she spoke in tongues. Saved then?

And, that at age 7 she was given a vision of Jesus in heaven on his throne. From her book, her own words,

I finally reached the place where Jesus was sitting and He put me up on His lap. Just like a loving Father, He began to talk with me, and He put His hand over my heart. I don’t recall exactly what He said to me, but I do remember feeling safe. I remember feeling loved, and it felt like I was home. I was so ecstatic about the dream. To me it wasn’t just a dream, it was Jesus actually meeting me and encountering me. From that moment I began to see into the supernatural realm.”

Des Jesus talk with us now? The scriptures say they are enough, even Peter who had a transfiguring experience with Jesus, said the word is more sure.

And so we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. (2 Peter 1:19).

Saved then? Saved in jail at 26? I understand some people do not know the moment of salvation, but her lifelong experiences with the supernatural realm is likely the reason why she attributes potential demon possession to Christians.

Issue : Demons Everywhere

Nowadays, Jenny’s entire ‘ministry’ is founded on and focuses on trauma and demons. She calls everything a demon. Lonely? It’s a demon of loneliness. Rejected? That’s the demon of rejection. So, issue with Jenny Weaver, her focus on the demonic realm. More on that tomorrow in another essay. Stay tuned, there are some really good perspectives I discovered from The Honest Youth Pastor.

For the record, I don’t deny there are demons out and about, the Bible tells us there are. I also don’t deny some unsaved people in today’s times can be demon possessed. It still happens. However, Jenny claims Christians can also have a demon. She is sometimes vague on this, going back and forth in nebulous language on whether a Christian can have a demon inside ‘guiding’ them or if it’s external oppression. But in two videos I watched she did assert that a Christian can be internally inhabited by a demon, and this is simply not true.

Issue : Lifestyle

As an adult, Jenny Weaver claims to be “a wife and homeschool mother, she believes in building families and communities in the Kingdom of God.” That quote was from her website. It’s obvious that Jenny also believes in building her brand and being a busy entrepreneur.

In 2018 Jenny Weaver started an online mentoring group of about 50 people. She calls it CORE. By 2022, she writes, it exploded in popularity as ‘God’ broke out revival. The curriculum of this now vast training college of 14,000 adherents includes live lessons which are ‘Holy Spirit-led’ and on Mondays students learn “deliverance & spiritual warfare training”. She also started a kids’ program and now trains thousands of kids and teens in the core group.

Below are the businesses and activities Jenny runs and maintains according to her Instagram linktree. And she also homeschools and mothers her daughter? Not sure about this claim. There isn’t enough time in a day to do all that and focus on being the mother Jesus wants a woman with children to be…

So, of her claim to be a “homeschooling mom,” in addition to mothering, she travels for concerts, runs a Business Coaching program that helps with “social media strategies, scaling a business, recreating a cohesive look and “feel” to your brand or business and I even teach how to use systems for organizing and schedule blocking“, develops and sells merchandise, AND runs an CORE academy with 14,000 students, and more. Homeschooling mom? Doubtful.

Issue : Direct Revelation

Jenny says she ‘leads in “Prophetic worship”‘ Nope. When she prophesies it’s false prophecy. These screen shots are from her January 2 prophetic word on Facebook Live. She is praying the Lord’s use of her will be accurate and edifying, and “thus saith the Lord”.

“Thus saith the Lord” is biblical language used in the Old Testament which confirmed the Prophet was of God. Above, Jenny is taking the Lord’s name in vain, blaspheming according to Exodus 20:7, because the Lord is not speaking to her. She is putting words in His mouth He didn’t say. Doing so, kindles His wrath.

Above, Jenny’s January 2 ‘prophetic word’ includes specificity on exactly HOW ‘Jesus’ told her to express His words to the listening audience on her Facebook livestream. Putting words in the Lord’s mouth that He didn’t say is dangerous. False prophets like Jenny will be severely punished.

This is what the LORD of armies says:
“Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you. They are leading you into futility; They tell a vision of their own imagination, Not from the mouth of the LORD. (Jeremiah 23:16)

I did not send these prophets,
But they ran.
I did not speak to them,
But they prophesied.
Jeremiah 23:21

“The prophets are prophesying lies in My name,” replied the LORD. “I did not send them or appoint them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a false vision, a worthless divination, the futility and delusion of their own minds. (Jeremiah 14:14).

False prophets happened then, it happens now. Prophecy is not occurring in this day and age because the canon is complete. (Revelation 22:18-19; 2 Timothy 3:16). Anyone in these days who claims to have heard directly from the Lord, is is delusional, false, or lying.

Jenny Weaver is a false teacher and a false prophet. All that is left for her (unless she truly repents) is plagues and wrath and punishment, according to the word of God. Avoid Jenny Weaver.

Can a Christian be Demon-possessed?

Charismatic Conference with singer Jenny Weaver encourages children to be slain in the spirit, speak in tongues

Testing Jenny Weaver’s Teachings (18-min video from Learn to Discern). In this video Weaver also says that Christians can be possessed by mind-controlling ‘octopus spirits’.

Posted in theology

Pirate Christian vs Beth Moore

Posted on by elizabethprata

By Elizabeth Prata

I love Chris Rosebrough of Fighting for the Faith. He has been “Fighting for the Faith” for a long time. Fighting for the Faith is a discernment ministry that compares what popular pastors, preachers, teachers, conference speakers, self-proclaimed prophets and prophetesses and self-appointed apostles and apostlets say to the word of God. He is known by the moniker “Pirate Christian.”

He is also a Lutheran pastor with a congregation in Minnesota.

If you need a discernment person, Chris Rosebrough would be a safe discerner. (Along with Justin Peters and Steve Kozar). Rosebrough has been discerning for a long time. I remember looking (and looking and looking) for material discerning Beth Moore back in 2011 and there was very little that wasn’t 100% approving of her. One of the three pieces that I found back then was a review Rosebrough did on her Hebrews speech published in 2006. So, a long time.

As he says in his tagline above, he compares what self-professed Christians say to what the Bible says. Last week he reviewed a speech Beth Moore made on her Youtube channel, where she allegedly explained the David & Goliath event in 1 Samuel 17.

What Rosebrough does in this video is…well…a lot! He announced at the outset of the video that Beth Moore is not a sound teacher. But he does more than just announce. He then turns to the Bible and reads the entire passage from the Bible that the teacher is presenting. He reads before and after, for context. Rosebrough explains the passage as he reads; the context, the history, the background, the meaning of certain words. Full explanation. By the time he is finished the listener has a solid grasp on the passage.

Then, and only then, near the end of this video, Rosebrough turns to the Beth Moore speech. The reader has by now been given such a solid grounding, he or she can immediately see why Moore’s explanation of the verse is not only ridiculous, but nearly blasphemy.

His discernment technique is more than pointing a finger and saying “don’t listen to her!” He teaches (pastorally), he models discernment (spiritual gift usage), and he is clear (“able to teach”).

A few points from the video:

narcigesis: this is a combination of two terms, narcissism and eisegesis. Narcissism because Moore inserts herself and the reader into the text and makes US the point, and eisegesis because that is an interpretive method where the interpreter inserts a preconceived meaning INTO the text instead of exegeting it (drawing meaning FROM the text.

If you are listening to a teacher explain a passage and you realize they have made it all about you, or made it where we are the hero of the story and not Jesus, it’s narcigesis. You might think, “Well DUH!” but satan is subtle and often times you do not realize the passage has been twisted. But listening to Chris Rosebrough, you will learn how to spot it.

Screen shot from Moore’s speech. The tall figure is supposed to represent Goliath, which Moore says represents our problems.

Rosebrough ends the video this way:

Beth Moore is not a sound biblical teacher … She took a text that’s so obviously about Christ and makes it about you and about me shows that she’s not skilled at all in rightly handling God’s word and and pointing you to yourself as your own savior.

Please listen to the video to see not only why Moore is not a solid teacher, but how to approach a biblical text and how to approach discernment.

Links to Pastor Chris Rosebrough’s work:

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Fighting4theFaith/featured

FaceBook facebook.com/piratechristian

Twitter twitter.com/piratechristian

Instagram instagram.com/piratechristian

Fighting for the Faith Podcast fightingforthefaith.com

Pirate Christian Radio piratechristianradio.com

Patreon patreon.com/PirateChristian

Join Our Crew piratechristian.com/join-our-crew

Posted in theology

Are the reporters who focus on sex abuse in the church doing a service, or a disservice?

Posted on by elizabethprata

By Elizabeth Prata

“A glacial erratic is a glacially deposited rock differing from the type of rock native to the area in which it rests. Erratics, which take their name from the Latin word errare (“to wander”), are carried by glacial ice, often over distances of hundreds of kilometres.” ~Wikipedia

Keep that definition in mind. Keep that picture in mind too.

Tripod Rock, Pyramid Mountain Natural Historic Area, Morris County, New Jersey, United States, 2019. photo/video © Brian W. Schaller / License: CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

I’ve written before about the importance of being balanced in our theology.

We should absorb the whole counsel of God. We should share the whole counsel of God. As Christians, we seek balance in our learning. As with anything in life, we strive to be well-rounded.

That’s not to say that we don’t have favorite doctrines. If we’re a layman or if we’re a teacher we may have a niche interest of study. RC Sproul was known for holiness and philosophy. Phil Johnson is known for his expertise on the Psalms. And, there are niches to be studied. The Doctrine of Providence. The Doctrine of Eschatology. The Doctrine of Hamartiology (Study of Sin). It’s OK to have a focused interest.

However, we should not camp on one doctrine to the exclusion of others, or delve so exclusively into our niche that our outlook becomes distorted.

In true discerning communication, there is always an attempt to point toward the good, not simply to highlight the bad. Throwing rhetorical hand grenades is pretty easy. Building a positive and convincing position is much harder.

Discernment bloggers, Truth, and Christian Witness

That quote could be applied to any study, not solely in discernment blogging, but in any Christian writing, any Christian study, any Christian life. Balance is important. Some have lost that balance in employing discernment. Others have lost it in studying eschatology. Now today, I’m speaking of a set of women who hyperfocus on sin: one sin in particular, that of sexual abuse.

Hamartiology is the study of the Doctrine of Sin, granted, but these women who constantly focus on a supposed plague of sex abuse in the church aren’t studying sin for the glory of Jesus. They are studying one sin for the besmirching of the church.

I am offended at these feminist women claiming Christ who perpetuate the myth that all churches are misogyny hatcheries, and every man, woman, and child in them are past, current, or future victims of sexual abuse. No.

Biblical odds are that since church gathers hundreds/thousands of people, some aren’t truly saved, despite professing. So, sin happens, like abuse. Also thievery, deception, adultery, embezzlement, etc. happens too. But sexual abuse has been skewed as THE one, only, main sin happening today in churches. It isn’t.

I’m reminded of John 16:2, where Jesus told his disciples,

They will ban you from the synagogue, yet an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering a service to God. John 16:2.

These women believe they are doing a service to God by constantly raising up alleged or even real cases of sex abuse they have no business in, that didn’t happen in their own church but others’, that happened 10 or 30 years ago, giving a platform for victims to recount in lengthy detail their abusers’ acts…

They think they’re helping. They aren’t helping.

Yes, the Ravi Zacharias abuse issue was horrific. Yes sexual abuse happens more and more in this world as all flavors of sin increase. Given how many apostate churches there are and how infrequently pastors preach a true gospel that includes wrath for sin, sadly, it happens in churches too.

Yet-

Jesus’ Church is beautiful, full of redeemed saints as part of His Bride. Yes, sin happens. Yes, unredeemed sinners stalk His gatherings, but the true church is glorious.

What do you think happens when a person (who professes Christ) constantly harps on one sinful topic? Especially that topic? Just as the Grinch’s heart grew three sizes that day when he discovered the true meaning of Christmas, (love),

that person’s heart will shrink,

For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. (Matthew 13:15 KJV),

What does the verse mean? Barnes’ Notes:

“The meaning in both places [parallel Isaiah 6:9-10] is, that the people were so gross, sensual, and prejudiced, that they “would” not see the truth, or understand anything that was contrary to their grovelling opinions and sensual desires; a case by no means uncommon in the world.“

We should be mindful about our view of the Bride of Christ and how we speak about it. Today’s culture even in professing Christendom, people play the victim so as to gain influence, their moment of fame, or just to join the chorus. Not to diminish real pain experienced from real sin – WHATEVER that sin against you was – but ‘going public’ after the matter is resolved is often NOT necessary or even wise.

I opened with a photo of a glacial erratic. These huge rocks are pushed by a glacier as it moves inexorably along. When the glacier finally melts the huge rock is deposited where those kind of rocks don’t normally appear. It’s out of place. Erratic is from a Latin word meaning “wander”. Often perched precariously atop other rocks, or slanted on a cliff, the erratics look like they will slide away or fall down any minute.

These women hade wandered far from orthodox theology, only to have come to rest on a tenuous set of perches far from their normal location, ready to slide away any moment. They truly are glacial, and erratic.

These and other women have created a theology that perches precariously atop their skewed outlook that sex abuse is everywhere. Their perspective rests entirely on a precarious pet subject…and it isn’t Christ

As you may come across these women in your social media travels, here are some questions to ask yourself:

Are they being careful how they speak of the saints, Jesus’ church, and God’s people, especially pastors?

Does it seem they think of our Jesus as a Savior who doesn’t overlook sin, but sees His redeemed as without blemish?

Do they act like they are walking in love? Do you get the feeling they view the Church as holy and blameless?

Photo by Sooz . on Unsplash

Do you get the sense that these women care for the perpetrators, too? That they pray for them because they know they need the Gospel? Or is the prevailing sense you get from their attitude is that ‘men are nasty; church is unsafe’?

In their overall ministry, is there a sense of hope, a pointing to the true, the good, the holy?

Is there an attitude of evaluating people as being in Christ, this same Christ who has triumphed over these unsavory sins? And if repentant, that the perp is forgiven? Do you get the sense they would welcome a repentant and forgiven sex abuse perp to their church? Sit with them at church suppers?

Would you want to attend church with these women, who focus so deeply on man’s flaws instead of Christ’s perfections? Would YOU feel safe with these women if they discovered a sin in you?

Or do these sex abuse reporters display relentless, pitiless scrutiny on solid men who lead solid churches?

Or do these sex abuse reporters display relentless, pitiless scrutiny on solid men who lead solid churches?

Do you feel your own perspective shifting from believing the church is triumphant and beautiful to a view that is rife with nastiness and stain? It’s this issue that prompted me to write. So many younger women are coming to the latter belief now, instead of the former. Dogged mudslinging will do that.

These women’s continual focus is not a service to God but simply a way for them to satisfy their own prurient interests, to delve into lasciviousness, while appearing to the unwary as pious and spiritual. Or, to satisfy their lust for fame and attention by muckraking and digging up victims whom they heartlessly exploit for hits. Avoid these women like the plague they are.

Further Reading

Ligonier: Ministering to the Abused and the Abusers

GotQuestions: What does the Bible say about a contentious or quarrelsome woman?

Posted in theology

David Platt discernment bundle: “The Real David Platt” new film, Platt’s wokeness, Isa dreams, Radical, and more

Posted on by elizabethprata

By Elizabeth Prata

What is discernment?

Discernment is a gift and a skill. It is a gift when it is given to certain people, as listed in 1 Corinthians 12:10,

To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: (KJV. underline mine)

and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. (NASB).

It’s a skill ALL Christians have and should train constantly, as in Hebrews 5:14,

But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to distinguish between good and evil. (NASB)

But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. (ESV).

How I approach utilizing discernment

I have a “three-item” standard. In discernment work, we do not jump at the least little thing a public teacher or local pastor says. We use common sense, review the bulk of a ministry for context, and wait, watching alertly but remaining self-controlled and measured. We overlook something he or she said that’s the equivalent of a typo.

But if we see or hear of something bigger, something that can be tested against scripture, we raise our discernment alarm. One item can be a mistake. Two times could be a coincidence. But three things, now that’s a pattern. Here is my standard:

1st piece of information: Discernment unease
2nd piece of information: Discernment alert
3rd piece of information: Discernment alarm, go public

And so it was with my assessment of David Platt through the years.

Who is David Platt?

Platt “was senior pastor at the Church at Brook Hills in Birmingham, Alabama, from 2006 to 2014. At the time he was the youngest megachurch pastor in the United States. From 2014 to 2017, Platt was president of the International Mission Board. He became pastor-teacher at McLean Bible Church in 2017. He is the author of the 2010 New York Times Best Seller Radical: Taking Back Your Faith from the American Dream.” (Wikipedia)

- Discernment unease: Radical (2010-2012)

Radical was published in 2010. It hit conservative churches like a bomb. It was a push-back against the lives Platt saw of conservative faithful settling into a consumerism complacency instead of daring to be uncomfortable and taking the faith to the lost in dangerous places. Book blurb:

It’s easy for American Christians to forget how Jesus said his followers would actually live, what their new lifestyle would actually look like. They would, he said, leave behind security, money, convenience, even family for him. They would abandon everything for the gospel. They would take up their crosses daily…

Kevin DeYoung at the time (2010) wrote a fair review of Radical. “Getting to the Root of Radical“. One of DeYoung’s concerns tracked with my main concern: “It is easy to stir people to action by relating how little everyone else has and how much we have in America, but we are not meant to have constant low-level guilt because we could be doing more.”

Low-level guilt was a thread throughout the book I assessed as emotional manipulation. I’ve also seen it coined as Platt’s “poverty gospel”.

Anyway, I was asked to teach through the 6-lesson Radical Small Group Study that came out in 2012. I was uncomfortable with Platt after having read his book Radical, but he’d quoted and used a lot of John MacArthur in the curriculum, so I stuck to the MacArthur side of things, thereby doing diligence to the trust the pastors had placed in me but also not upsetting my conscience. Going through the lessons raised my discernment radar on Platt. I thought the book was emotional, unbalanced, and in the end, dangerous.

- Discernment alert- Urbana15 (2015)

It was at InterVarsity’s 24th student missions conference in 2015 I could not believe what I was seeing. Urbana is “One of the largest student missions conferences in the world, …and combines gospel proclamation, dynamic worship, and missionary connection to launch students into a life of reaching people with the good news.”

Platt spoke there as he often does.

Platt preached of the unnamed woman in Matthew 26 who poured out her expensive perfume, and compared that to pouring out our heart to the Lord. He did mention sin in his sermon, but never uttered the word “repent”. He emotionally pleaded to the thousands assembled there to “decide for Christ”, and said ushers would come by and give them a glowstick which the attendees should break “if they had decided to follow Jesus for the first time”, knowing “that Jesus is worthy of their heart and life”.

Screenshot: Platt explaining how to use the glowstick to indicate one’s decision to follow Jesus

He said to the impressionable youths to hold up the glowstick as a picture of their heart now poured out to Christ. There was a room they could go to where they’d be provided resources, and someone would pray with them to “celebrate God’s grace in you.”

Screenshot: A volunteer at Urbana 15 passing out glowsticks to those standing who’d indicated they ‘decided to follow Jesus’

No. No. No. One never declares a person saved on the spot. This leads to false conversions. Certainly not from a podium to a darkened room full of young people who’d just heard an emotional plea to follow Christ for the first time – but said plea was absent a plea for repentance of sins.

Urbana’s video of Platt at Urbana 15. Above, Youtube’s video of the same event. Youtube is convenient because it has the transcript.

Platt said for the kids to hold up their glowsticks in order to “express affection, adoration, longing, and love for Christ.” Emotional terms. But what about the plea for repentance, holy fear, submission, confession? All these terms were absent from Platt’s decisional altar call.

Devastating. My radar on Platt went to Discernment alert.

- Discernment Alarm: Isa Dreams (2018)

In 2018, then-International Mission Board President David Platt delivered a 6-minute report to the Southern Baptist Convention Annual Meeting affirming Isa as Messiah and conversion through Muslim dreams. He told of some Muslims in a closed country having dreams of Isa and reporting that “This formerly Muslim couple is now a follower of Isa the Messiah.“

Isa is not the Messiah.

Interestingly, the SBC always fully published their leaders’ reports after the Annual Meeting, but in this particular case, the subsequent transcription published on the IMB website OMITS that Platt had stated that the couple is now following “Isa the Messiah”. Instead they transcribed that Platt said the couple is following “the Messiah”. Also interestingly, unlike in past years where the full report is published on Youtube or the IMB site, that year only a recap video was available. I transcribed his speech from the live video as it was being recorded by someone who was physically present, that’s how I know of the omission when I compared the two.

The following link of mine has the transcript. Blasphemy: Jesus is not Isa, Isa is not Jesus

Anyone who calls Isa a messiah of the faithful Christians is NOT to be followed. He is not credible. Done. Finito. It’s like calling Yahweh Molech or Dagon. This was the third nail in the discernment coffin for me as to who David Platt is. Why?

Isa is a made-up satanic entity in the Muslim tradition who is not deity, was never actually crucified, never died, where a substitute was placed on the cross to fool the Jews, (Suran al-Ma’idah 4:157), was raised to heaven alive (Surah al-Imran (3:55) and who will return to earth to worship the ‘one god’ [not Trinitarian] Allah and kill Christians, break the cross, remove jizyah (A Muslim tax) and rule (forcibly converted) Muslims “with justice.” (Surah al-Imran (3:55).

Critical Mass: Platt’s worst revealed, in new Documentary

Screenshot: https://therealdavidplatt.com/

A new documentary is coming out in 2024 in which a sneak peek of 10 minutes was published at Christmastime 2023.

The link includes describing Platt’s alleged leadership and financial malfeasance of McLean Bible church, allegations by former members and leaders. The film is called The Real David Platt.

It reportedly interviews many of McLean’s church members, elders, and leaders who have departed the church or who they say were forcibly excommunicated after having asked questions of finances and other issues. The interviewees describe their negative experiences there and outline their concerns and fear, often with tears for McLean church, its leaders, and fellow members.

It should be noted that the extended trailer does not include anyone representing from ‘the other side,’ that I saw, although I hope and pray in journalistic ethics the producers give McLean elders and Platt opportunity to speak in the full documentary. We do not know who is behind the documentary, although Jon Harris of Conversations That Matter (linked below) said he worked on intake of the interviewees for the film. He discusses the documentary below.

Conclusion

2010-2012- I’ve seen him off since the book Radical was published. I had concerns when asked to teach thru his Radical book curriculum in 2012 I saw more; and I disliked Platt’s guilt-tripping “poverty gospel”.

2015 when he touted 681 non-Christians made a decision of faith to follow Jesus, signified by glowsticks? at Urbana15

2018- Again in 2018 when Platt affirmed Isa dreams. I was done with Platt 6 years ago in 2018.

But for others, these indicators were not enough to call David Platt, evangelical darling, NYT bestselling author megachurch pastor, a wolf. However, by now at the end of 2023 there is plenty to show that Platt is not to be followed. There’s the Critical Race Theory/social justice/woke stances he spoke at public pulpits over the years, the lawsuit, and allegations of financial greed and authority misuse (internal documents supporting these allegations are promised to be shown in the full movie).

Sadly, we must strenuously urge people to stay away from his material, to repudiate his works, and if having promoted or followed him, to repent. Below are many other resources outlining issues with Platt, and this list is NOT comprehensive.

Further resources

The End Time: Blasphemy: Isa is not Jesus and Jesus is not Isa

Think on These Things: “An Evaluation Of Muslim Dreams & Visions Of Isa (Jesus)” “...one can rejoice in Muslim conversions while still expressing concerns about the messenger, especially since the Isa of Muslim dreams isn’t simply calling Muslims to believe in the Jesus of the Bible; he is calling them to believe in him (Isa).

Jon Harris at Conversations that Matter, discusses this new documentary The Real David Platt?

Here we have The Dissenter with a compilation of statements posted Aug 11, 2021 from Platt titled “David Platt’s Worst Woke Statements Ever“. They wrote: ” David Platt’s McLean Bible Church is currently in the midst of a crisis of division and disunity that was clearly caused by his unbiblical embrace of social justice, particularly, a worldly form of “racial justice,” as an outworking of the gospel. This montage is for the purpose of demonstrating that David Platt has clearly embraced all of this movement.”

Capstone Report: A chronological roundup of Platt’s woke trajectory. David Platt is Harming McLean Bible Church With Social Justice Theology

Evangelical Dark Web: David Platt’s Million-dollar Lawsuit

Posted in theology

Deconstructing a negative comment

Posted on by elizabethprata

By Elizabeth Prata

I receive many encouraging comments after I post something or put up a podcast. One of the type of posts I write are discernment posts. I receive comments on those, some encouraging and some not so encouraging.

I don’t mind that, IF the comment is one where the commenter is trying to reason with me through the scriptures. That doesn’t happen much. Sadly.

People lack discernment to a greater and greater degree, I notice. If they follow a certain false teacher whom I have written about, they do all sorts of gymnastics to defend that false teacher instead of being more interested in defending Jesus and asking why I believe these things are so. (Acts 17:11).

They also seem to have a template of Bible phrases they throw into the discussion, out of context or used in a twisted way, of course.

One such comment came to me a short while ago. In it, I see almost ALL of the tropes and clichés the undiscerning use to rebut a thoughtful essay containing scriptures. This one came in after I re-published my Bullet Points on Why Joyce Meyer is a False Teacher.

I want to go through it and show why it was not a reasonable comment, in fact, quite ignorant, biblically speaking. My purpose is so you, too, can rebut, or at least see why this kind of comment is not appropriate for a Christian. The Commenter is in red. My answer is underneath.

Some people think they are doing “good” by trying to “warn people” by calling out preachers and pastors

The quotes around the words good and warn people are called “scare quotes”. It’s a journalistic technique to disparage what someone has said, or to show disdain. The word ‘trying’ is also a snide put-down. Christians discuss things charitably. They should not be haughty.

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 1 Peter 1:15 KJV.

Of course a biblically aware Christian knows that the New Testament urges believers to be vigilant against false teachers, which are warned about to us in every NT book except Philemon. We are not only told to beware, but to warn others. This isn’t optional. They are commands. So yes, it IS doing good by warning others. Why would someone think it’s bad to warn a believer they are about to be devoured?

but they fail to take the plank out of their own eye.

This is part of a verse, taken out of context. The full passage is in Matthew 7:1-5. It is about the WAY we judge, and not to do it hypocritically, but righteously.

It is also an uncharitable assumption. Charity and grace in conversation is important. A charitable assumption would be to assume that the author has already prayed and worked to take the plank out, so as not to be hypocritical.

If the commenter is concerned about me the author writing hypocritically, she should private message me, to ask what steps I’d taken to avoid hypocrisy. Or even better, assume in charity that I’ve already taken those steps.

If everyone said everything perfectly and did everything perfectly there would have been no need for Jesus.

This is a common way for people to diminish the importance of discernment. It’s a trope, the “Nobody’s perfect” cliché.

We are not talking about ‘perfection’ when we remark about false doctrine. We are talking about false doctrine, which kills. We are talking about false teachers who bring false doctrine, who are goats. Goats have an agenda, and that agenda is to destroy you and me. Their goal is to cause divisions, create obstacles, and to deceive. (Romans 16:17-18). Their goal is to make you captive. (Colossians 2:8). That’s more than an ‘Oopsie, I misspoke.”

We are not sinners anymore Joyce [Meyer] is right about that. We are saints who will still commit sins and that’s the difference. To God we are reborn and not considered sinners to God who belong to him.

The commenter is splitting a hair here. She is right, BUT, and it’s a big BUT, Joyce Meyer has previously taught that once saved, Christians do NOT sin any more. They they are sinLESS. She has said she herself does not sin. Here is her quote:

Joyce Meyer said she is not a sinner: “I am not poor. I am not miserable, and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I were, and if I still was, then Jesus died in vain. I’m going to tell you something, folks. I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head. I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that’s heresy, and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I am righteous and I can’t be righteous and be a sinner at the same time.” https://carm.org/preachers-and-teachers/joyce-meyer/

1 John 1:8 and Romans 7:19-20, 24 tell us we are saved from our past sin and declared righteous. But we still retain our sin nature and we still sin. That’s why James 5:16 says we need to confess our sins to each other.

More on this here: Are we Sinners or Saints?

Joyce Meyer palling around with fellow false teacher Beth Moore

So this good willed article to call out this woman only leads people astray and discouraged. And the others who can’t wait to be part of the problem to talk about others in this attack mode.

Key words here most undiscerning people use; lead astray, discourage, and mainly, ‘attack’. They call any discerning article an attack.

What the attack actually is, is the false teacher’s assault against Christ. Undiscerning people look horizontally, not upward vertically.

Not helpful. Really playing with fire here to call someone out like this to come to find out you were wrong and actually drive people further away from Christ.

Leaving the church because of discernment blogs?

They always say that discernment drives people away from Jesus. It doesn’t. Acts 5:14 is one example. After Ananias and Sapphira were KILLED by God, for their hypocrisy and lies, “more than ever” believers entered the church. Really? Didn’t the killing by God of two prominent believers “drive people away”? “And more than ever believers in the Lord were added to their number, multitudes of men and women,”

Why? Barnes’ Notes explains:

Were the more added – The effect of all these things was to increase the number of converts. Their persecutions, their preaching, and the judgment of God, “all” tended to impress the minds of the people, and to lead them to the Lord Jesus Christ. … Though the judgment of God had the effect of deterring hypocrites from entering the church – though it produced awe and caution, yet still the number of true converts was increased.

The commenter is just plain wrong.

Joyce is not God. She’s capable of human error and sin like anyone else. And I believe she has admitted errors where she has recognized them.

1.No one has said Joyce Meyer is God. Straw man fallacy alert.
2.No, Joyce hasn’t admitted errors. Because Joyce Meyer preaches to men, and that is an activity and an office denied to women. She actively and constantly rebels against scripture. This is her error.

Straw Man Fallacy: A straw man fallacy occurs when someone distorts or exaggerates another person’s argument, and then attacks the distorted version of the argument instead of genuinely engaging. (Source)

So those pharasee out there need to take it easy.

It would probably help her credibility if she spelled Pharisee correctly. But more than that, did you notice a glaring omission from the entire comment? Not one scripture. That is the main key. They do not reason over scriptures. Instead they throw shade, disdain, and attack the person who is promoting discernment. They have to. They don’t have a leg to stand on.

Consider if the person commenting to me or if you have received comments like this, if they are adhering to the following scriptures themselves. If not, aren’t THEY the hypocrite?

Keep your tongue from evil And your lips from speaking deceit. (Psalm 34:13).

Your speech must always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person. (Colossians 4:6).

Let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth, but if there is any good word for edification according to the need of the moment, say that, so that it will give grace to those who hear. (Ephesians 4:49).

And you know there are many more verses which guide us in how we should speak to one another. Most importantly, if you choose to engage with the person, don’t be drawn into a devolving conversation in which your witness will be blotted because of anger or ungracious speech.

Ladies, if or when you discuss a false teacher online, you most probably will receive comments like the one I shared. Or if you meet with elders to discuss a false activity in the church, you may well receive pushback. Hopefully not. But listen for those clichés. Have scripture ready. Keep reasoning over scripture, even if the person online or in real life accuses you with emotional or slanderous challenges. It isn’t YOU they are challenging, it’s Jesus IN you. (Matthew 5:10-12). They aren’t against you, so much, as they are FOR themselves.

Posted in theology

They’re not even hiding it anymore: Beth Moore, preaching, and how to get women into the pulpit. Bonus: Moore’s teaching on 1Tim2:12

Posted on by elizabethprata

By Elizabeth Prata

Beth Moore is preaching at Duke University chapel today. She is named as a preacher, welcomed as a preacher, and her sycophants are trumpeting their (seeming) victory of women as preacher, preaching.

The Baptists and the Anglicans are hosting the Sinning Jezebel after she finishes, sinning er, preaching.

Do they not know how Romans 1 ends? —>

and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. underline mine.

Obviously, the women do not think they are sinning by preaching in church. They do not think they are sinning by applauding women who preach. They are also experts at twisting God’s word. The very first words from satan in the Bible were an undermining of what God had said, by asking: ‘was that really what God said?’ and the second words were a flat contradiction of what God had said. (Genesis 3:1-4)

I remember waaaay back on, oh, lemme see, it was the Spring of ’19 when Beth Moore let slip that she was preaching er, speaking er, doing Mother’s day at a church. Things were more coy then. Now they just say the sinning part out loud.

Just four years ago word manipulation was necessary. Moore used to say she was “speaking” at a pulpit.

How to subvert God’s word: 4 steps to female preachers

1. First, ask if God really said what He said. Did God really say that women may not preach?

To install a woman at the pulpit, one must subvert traditional interpretations of what God hath said. To wit: when the serpent asked Eve if God really said what He said, Eve answered the serpent correctly, mostly, but he no doubt noticed Eve had added a Law to what God had said. She repeated God’s command not to eat the fruit, but added to it- “nor touch it.” Since the interpretation varied from Adam to Eve, the serpent took that crack in the wall and ran with it.

Next, simply ignore thousands of years of settled interpretation with a snap of the fingers, by mirroring satan’s contradiction of the plain command. This implies that interpretations are never settled. No, God didn’t say THAT, did he? No you will not die. Yes you can preach.

They say they will review the verse to understand the interpretation. They look at word studies, (and cherry pick their preferred definition), and review previous interpreters (cherry picked, of course). They do this with an agenda, not looking for exegesis, drawing meaning out of what is there, but for ways around it. Here’s how-

The people who harp on women belonging in the pulpit say that the phrase in 1 Timothy 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet, doesn’t mean what it appears to mean.

The word at issue with the ‘let’s all interpret this differently’ crowd is authentein.

Strong’s Definition: to govern, exercise authority
Strong’s Usage: I domineer, govern, have mastery over.

This ‘reverend’ below is in the comments where it was announced Moore’s preaching at Duke, and applauding it. He says to study authentein.

This ‘word study’ involves re-interpreting the verse to say that as long as a woman doesn’t become a tyrant at the pulpit, it is OK to preach. They say that since the word in one of its usages means domineering, if a woman preaches humbly, it’s OK.

I’m not kidding. This “teaching” is what Beth herself taught in her 1995 book “To Live is Christ: Joining Paul’s Journey of Faith“. It’s an overview of Paul’s life and teaching. Here is how Beth Moore interpreted authentein, what follows are Beth Moore’s words, with a discernment mini-lesson for each paragraph from me:

“If you glance through the Book of 1 Timothy, you will notice a continuing exhortation for order in the churches. Paul wrote about servants (deacons), overseers, widows, elders, and slaves. In stressing order in the church, he made some statements about women that raise controversy. Although these statements are not my focus, I do not want to be charged with cowardice by omitting any mention of them. We are wise to view Paul’s exhortations in context. He used far more ink to address deacons and overseers.” ~Beth Moore

[My note: the verse wasn’t “controversial” for 2000 years. By her dubbing the verse “controversial” it slyly insinuates there is something wrong with it.]

“In 1 Timothy 2:11–12, Paul wrote, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” When he said, “A woman should learn in quietness” and “be silent,” he did not use a Greek word that meant “complete silence or no talking. [He used a word] used elsewhere to mean settled down, undisturbed, not unruly.” Remember, Paul’s primary ministry was geared toward Gentiles who had never been trained to have respect and reverence in worship. Paul encouraged women to observe traditional customs lest the young churches suffer a bad reputation.” ~Beth Moore

[My note: It was cultural, Beth Moore says. Nope, it was a command.]

“Consider a traditional Jewish worship service. Men sat on the lower floor of the synagogue while women sat in the balcony or at the back of the room. Women were not allowed to utter a word; they merely listened. Contrast this picture with a Christian worship service in the New Testament world. The men and women were together in a private home. The worship centered around praising God, singing, fellowshipping, eating together, sharing testimonies, and receiving instruction in their new faith. Women were included as never before. Talk about a radical idea!” ~Beth Moore

[My note: This is true. Truth is often mixed in with false teachers’ lessons, in order to confuse the undiscerning.]

“The Christian movement was new and fragile. Any taint of adverse publicity could greatly hinder the mission of the church and mean persecution for believers. Women had to restrain their new freedom in Christ (Gal. 3:28) so as not to impede the progress of the gospel. Paul’s “weaker brother” principle (1 Cor. 8:9) applies. He said, “Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak.” Thus, women were to learn quietly, without calling attention to themselves.” ~Beth Moore

[My note: The faith was never “fragile”. We don’t need to delicately walk on eggshells lest it all collapse. Women didn’t have to ‘restrain their freedom.’ In the paragraph above, Moore lauds their new freedom! Now suddenly women are unhappily restricted. Genesis 3:5, ‘God’s holding out on you!’]

“In regard to instructing women not to teach men, you must understand that most women in Paul’s day were illiterate. They were not taught in synagogue schools or trained by a rabbi. Paul goes on to say in verse 12 that women should not usurp authority over men. The Greek word authenteo, “one who claims authority,” is used only this one time in the Greek translation of the Bible. This word refers to an autocrat or dictator. Paul says women were not to come in and take over!” ~Beth Moore

[My note: Lydia, Priscilla, Lois, Eunice and other women were lauded as teachers and disciples of the word. Moore is stretching things now. But yes, women were not allowed to come in and take over… THE PULPIT. Why? God doesn’t want them preaching there.]

“We cannot regard verses 11 and 12 as a prohibition against women opening their mouths in church or men learning anything biblical from women. Paul gave instructions for how women are to pray and prophesy (1 Cor. 11:5). He was fully aware of Priscilla’s role in teaching Apollos in Ephesus (Acts 18:26). Paul issued differing instructions for churches based on their cultural settings and his desire for order in the church.” ~Beth Moore.

[My Note: Priscilla’s “role” was not a role, as in, an office of teacher in the church. She didn’t teach in church. The verse explicitly says she and her husband took Apollos aside. Priscilla is mentioned 6X in scripture and every time, with her husband.]

But a careful study of that word [authentein] means, leads us to understand that it means to take authority, period. It has nothing to do with abusive authority. In fact, if he was talking about abusive authority he wouldn’t be just talking about women; he’d also be talking about what? Men, because it would be just as much a sin for them as for women.

John MacArthur, “God’s High Calling for Women”

Remember, the false teachers like Beth Moore are wordsmiths. They know what to write to create doubt, they make allusive remarks, and they reinterpret traditionally interpreted verses to match their own agenda. Usurp means usurp. Take authority over means to take authority over.

3.After causing one to doubt that God actually said, then reinterpreting the verse, the next step is to designate the unwanted verses as Clobber Verses. In this, one must diminish the verse’s importance by saying it’s numerically insignificant compared to ‘the rest of the Bible’ or, by its nuance etc. AKA, it’s a “Clobber Verse”. Here’s Beth again on 1 Timothy 2:12 from the same book, this time, the introduction:

“Having admired the apostle Paul for years, I was somewhat surprised by a few comments made by people who learned I was writing a Bible study on his life. I received questions like, “How can you, a woman, write a Bible study about a man who obviously had no tolerance for women in ministry?” Sadly, the controversy surrounding small bits of the apostle’s teaching has often kept students from delving into the heart and liberating theology of the whole man.”

Wordsmithing: Moore said “no tolerance for women in ministry“. No, Paul (via the Spirit) had no tolerance for women in preaching. He welcomed Prisca, Phoebe, Susannah, Lydia and many other women in their ministries. Just not preaching.
Clobber verse: Moore said, “small bits of the apostle’s teaching“. Small bits? Like those verses don’t matter? No, all scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; (2 Timothy 3:16). How many times does God have to say it before it isn’t a “small bit” any more?

4.Next on the agenda for feminists to get women behind the pulpit is to pretend there’s “tension” between what ‘Paul has said’ and ‘what Christ has said’. Drive a wedge between them, like satan did with Eve and Adam. Once Eve ate the fruit and handed it to Adam, he had a choice to make. We know what he chose.

4a.Include other verses that SEEM to affirm your position (but don’t really.) This is another masquerade at seeming pious and theological. Currently Psalm 68:11 is being used to support women preaching. Duke Chapel did in the photo screen shot at top, and many others did in Moore’s Twitter comment stream.

The Lord gives the command; The women who proclaim good news are a great army: (Ps 68:11)

No tension exists. That would be saying that there is tension between the Holy Spirit in one book and the Holy Spirit in another book. But the idea is to appear pious, eagerly and sincerely delving into the word of God so as to rightly divide it. Appearances are everything to a false teacher.

No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds. (2 Corinthians 11:14-15).

Tim Bates at Things Above Us parsed Moore’s statement of alleged ‘tension’ in his article –

DON’T MENTION THE TENSION: STTA! by Tim Bates

Beth Moore, a teacher who is tossed about by every wind of doctrine, recently cited “tension” between the books of the New Testament that—through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit—recorded Jesus’ earthly ministry (Matthew-John) and the epistles that were also inspired by the Holy Spirit. In the context in which she jumped headlong into inevitable heresy (i.e. Jesus and Paul disagree or, better stated, the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit disagree) it was appropriate to call out her use of the word tension. There are not irreconcilable tensions about gender roles anywhere in the New Testament. The Bible has no contradictions because God cannot lie.

LOL, that was just the first paragraph. I love it.

Armin J. Panning, a Lutheran professor and Seminary president (passed on now) published a well-written, clear, 4 page word study of the word authentein, here, if you are interested. He rebuts the modern interpretation soundly and theologically.

Conclusion

Steps to get women preaching:

1.Hath God said? Pious doubt.
2.Contradict God’s word.
3.Declare your hated verse a ‘clobber verse’ and dilute its importance by burying it in a numerical pile under other verses.
4.Mourn an alleged ‘tension’ in God’s word between the hated verse and more preferred verses, driving a wedge between them.
4a.Misuse other verses to continue to appear pious and theological.
5.Emerge with a new interpretation, and stick to it.

Beth Moore ended her introduction to her book on Paul’s life this way:

Our focus today is on Paul’s personal exhortations to Timothy, his son in the faith. Midway through my preparation for this study, I began to realize that one of God’s priority goals is to raise up and encourage passionate, persevering servants who are completely abandoned to His will. Paul’s exhortations to Timothy stand as timeless words of advice to every servant of the living God, regardless of generation or gender.

“Regardless of gender”. There you have it.