beth moore – Page 10

Beth Moore’s “Bus Stop vision” was not from God, here’s why

Posted on July 26, 2016 by elizabethprata

A new video clip of Beth Moore speaking to a group of people, filmed by Trinity Broadcasting, is making the rounds. It is a 5-minute clip excised from her 30-minute broadcast on that TBN schedule. it shows Moore relating a story of a vision she received when she had been in prayer. Since it seems the clip cannot be embedded, I am going to synopsize the anecdote for you and then explain why this vision she has allegedly received from “God” is untrue and a demonic deception.

Beth Moore : Jesus Knows Your Need

She said that as she prayed “as plain as day” God put a picture “in her mind” of a Houston Bus Stop. It was a particular stop that was about 30 minutes from her home. It was definitely not a stop that was close to her home, as she saw it clearly “in her heart”. She explained that she “jotted down what she felt like God was saying. He didn’t speak to me out loud, I felt it “in my spirit.”

What she said she “jotted down” as her “note” was,

“Take money with you, I will show you who to give it to.” ~God

Moore can aver all she wants that she isn’t hearing “God” audibly, but she wrote down exactly what “God” said, didn’t she. The statement from the entity she says is God is in the first person, isn’t it. If it’s first person command from God, it is authoritative, and it is scripture. God can’t be any less authoritative with Moore than He was with Habakkuk when He said to write it down, can He? So Moore “jotted down” a “note” in response to the God of the Universe commanding her in first person. Such a casual response, isn’t it.

Back to the vision.

She then went to the ATM to get money for this jaunt, and she said

“I believe I know in my heart how much it was supposed to be. Then I go to the mall and run my errands. It’s my husband’s birthday in a few days.”

Let’s stop here. We are one minute and five seconds into the description of the vision. There are many contradictions already.

Ever since Moore has been criticized for her alleged visions, she has changed her story to now say that she does not hear God audibly. In just the first 45 seconds she said she received her summons from God-

In her mind.
In her heart.
In her spirit.
In a picture.
Intuition. (regarding the $$)

It’s never this unclear when God spoke to the Prophets or Apostles, especially within the same vision. We read that “The Lord said…” He speaks clearly to the prophet, the prophet records the words, or he performs the task. It’s not rocket science. Enough with the inaudible, intuitive, mind-spirit-heart pictures already.

Now to my main point. What we also notice in the Bible is that when the Lord says “Arise and go” or “Follow me” they arise and go. Immediately. At once.

When Jesus said “Come, follow Me“, to the fishermen disciples … “And at once they left their nets and followed Him“. (Mt 4:20). At once.

When Jesus said ‘follow me’ to Matthew, didn’t he jump up from his tax booth and follow Jesus right then? (Mark 2:14).

And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax booth, and he said to him, “Follow me.” And he rose and followed him.

And, didn’t Jesus say to the man who had errands to do first, “Let the dead bury the dead” and to the other man who wanted to say goodbye to his family, “Anyone who puts the hand to the plow and looks back isn’t worthy“… (Matthew 8:22; Luke 9:62). When the God of the universe says go do something, you do it at once, or you’re not worthy to follow Him.

Yet, let me understand this. According to Beth Moore, “God” said to Beth Moore, ‘GO TO THE BUS STOP!’ but Beth Moore went shopping first!? You notice she squeezed God into her schedule and went to the mall first since it was on her way. She actually said that. Since this particular mall was out near the Bus Stop she had been divinely commanded to appear at, she would do her errands there before obeying God.

I can just see her notes she said she “jotted down.”

1. Keith’s b-day.
2. Bus stop for God.
3. Get gas.
4. Pick up milk.

If she was truly hearing from God she would have obeyed immediately. Hearing from God elicits a response in the soul that is convicting, immediate, because the command comes from the ultimate authoritative source. The response of the Prophets and Apostles and Disciples who actually heard from God responded immediately. We see that in just the few examples I shared from the Bible, and there are many other examples. Moreover, He said anyone who does errands first is not worthy to follow Him. What He was saying there is that He is the priority at any given moment.

Moore squeezing God into her schedule to make it more convenient for her day is not Christian obedience. She is actually teaching her listeners to diminish God’s authority by demonstrating her casual and disdainful response to His command. She is showing her audience how to satisfy the flesh before you obey God. And she is teaching them to deny the sufficiency of scripture by claiming to have heard from “God,” and further diminish scripture, because had written down in first person what he “said.” Or actually had “jotted down” the “note”.

As my friend said on Facebook as per our conversation about this ‘vision’, giving the Apostle John in Revelation 1:10 the same kind of response Moore gave,

I was in the Spirit on Patmos when the Lord came to me. I said, “Hold on a minute, I’m making some fish for my wife’s birthday dinner.

Sadly, aside from the thousands to tens of thousands or millions who tuned in to her show on TBN and saw it originally, a quarter of a million people have additionally viewed this clip that was posted later. We are truly living in a time of deep biblical illiteracy. You can combat that by reading your Bible and praying for the wisdom from the Spirit to illuminate it to your mind.

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

The clip is also on GodTube here.

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Further Reading

Essay: What does it mean that the Bible is inspired?

Essay: Is God a Bad Communicator?

Sermon: Spiritual Shipwreck of the Word Faith movement

Video clip WWUTT: Visions and Voices from God (Beth Moore, 1:30 min)

How can we know if what they are hearing or seeing is truly from the Lord? There is a very simple test you can apply. Does their personal revelation agree with the Bible? If the answer is no, they are either making stuff up or the voice they are hearing isn’t from God. If the answer is yes, then you don’t need their word or vision, it’s in the Bible.

Audio clip: When We Understand the Text (WWUTT).

Taking a couple questions from listeners, one is a criticism and another looking for clarification on the WWUTT video featuring Beth Moore. (20 minutes).

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Discernment Lesson: Comparing a Beth Moore & Martyn Lloyd Jones teaching on on the same verse

Posted on June 12, 2016June 12, 2016 by elizabethprata

I recently did a discernment lesson on the most popular story Beth Moore tells, The Hairbrush Story. Chris Rosebrough has dismantled it sentence by sentence, and I pointed readers to that link, and then offered some of my own insights.

Because writing a discernment lesson about a false teacher takes so much time, which means I have to spend a lot of time wallowing in her muck, it necessitates a spiritual wash afterwards. I got curious about Moore’s teaching on Ephesians 3:19, which The Hairbrush Story was allegedly about. She focused on the part of the verse which promises the full measure of God (NIV), or the fullness of God (ESV).

and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. (Ephesians 3:19)

I love Martyn Lloyd Jones’ sermons, especially on Ephesians, which I am going through anyway. I decided to listen to his treatment of the verse, the same verse, the one and only verse, and see what I could learn. After hearing Moore, I really did want to know more about the full measure of Christ it is a majestic topic. The phrase kept rolling around in my head. So I headed over to the Martyn Lloyd Jones (MLJ) Trust Sermons and listened so my mind could be cleansed from the mud and I could learn about Jesus from a credible preacher. I found the MLJ sermon All the Fullness of God

As I was pondering these things, a tweet came up from my twitter friend Landon Chapman at Entreating Favor website and Fire Away! podcast. Here it is:

This is very, very wise. I take his advice to heart.

I have never immediately compared a false teacher’s lesson on a verse to a credible teacher’s treatment of it. Of course I always compare the false teacher’s lesson to the Bible. Also, it’s not often I can find a false teacher having focused solely on one verse for the point of her lesson and then find a preacher who also preached on that exact sole verse. Comparing would be easy. Not uncomplicated or fast, but easy as in apples to apples. The Moore teaching was still fresh in my mind, as I listened to Jones’. I listened to MLJ’s sermon three times in fact.

I found that Beth Moore and Martyn Lloyd Jones, having taught the same single verse, came to exactly opposite conclusions. Totally at odds with each other. One says yes, the other no. One says black, the other says white. One says up, the other down. By the picture below, you can easily see which Bible teacher’s teaching I found biblical.

Lloyd Jones’ well known nickname; A nickname I dub Moore

Moore taught that the full measure of Christ in us believers is something we do not currently possess.
Jones taught that the fullness of Christ is something we currently do possess.

Moore taught that we could possess it IF we do certain things.
Jones taught that the fullness is something every believer already has as a gift.

Moore taught that the reason we want the full measure of Christ is so we can get blessing and power.
Jones categorically rejects this.

Moore taught that the fullness was a feeling.
Jones taught that the fullness was a doctrine.

Moore taught that we want the full measure of Christ so we can get something, power, love, blessing.
Jones taught that having the fullness of Christ is something we aspire to because Christ is the prize.

They even have a different summation point-

Beth Moore teaching the point of lesson: “I’ve got to know somebody totally loves me.”
Lloyd Jones says the point of the verse is: “It is the highest doctrine of all.”

I won’t go on, you can see it on this chart I made. I included the links from which I delved into each lesson, and the minute at which I heard each teaching so if you care to check it out yourself, you can. Below the chart are the two illustrations each teacher gave. Moore’s was with the measuring cup and Jones’s was about a bottle. They come to opposite conclusions. Moore believes the fullness has a quantity to it and Jones says the full measure is about the quality of it.

Note: MLJ preached the Ephesians series between 1957 and 1980. Moore’s hairbrush story was re-published on LifeToday in 2012 and that is where I reviewed it, though she had delivered it at least as early as 2011 and maybe a year or two earlier than that. The comments in the chart are direct quotes.

The illustration: Moore’s measuring cup and liquid.

With this visual prop, Moore was teaching that we do not possess the full measure. However if we do certain things in our own power and then ask for the fullness, Christ will give it AND “the power that comes with it”. In Moore’s interpretation, we are all 16 oz measuring cups and some of us have 2 ounces of the fullness and others of us have 4 ounces and others get to be filled up completely. A total filling is not something that will happen on this side of eternity anyway.

Lloyd-Jones teaches the opposite. He focuses on ton the vessel but on the quality of the filling. He said we already possess the fullness of Christ in us when we’re saved. He said the power of God (omnipotence) is an attribute of God that is NON-communicable. MLJ also said the fullness is not a quantity, but a quality. Why?

because the amount varies. It varies in the same man from time to time. It varies from one of us to the other, and yet we all can have the fullness.

Here is an illustration to show how you can possess the fullness and yet have more of it. Take a bottle and put it into the sea. You can fill it. Then you can say that bottle is full of the sea. Then you can take a great tank and do the same thing. They both have a fullness but they haven’t the same amount. And the sea is always the sea. The little bottle full of sea has just the same characteristics of the sea in fullness as the tank has.

The drastic difference between the two teachings comes from their view of Jesus and of self. Jones’ eyes are on Christ, Moore’s is on herself. With her, the fullness is something we get, power comes with it, we do things with this power, we get blessing, we receive affirmation of love, and we can have more of it. We, we, we. Her eyes are on self.

Jones shows us where our eyes should be. Not on the bottle, not on the amount that is IN the bottle, not on the tank, not on anything we might think we get, but on the SEA. It is what is IN us that matters. It’s all about Christ in us, His righteousness, His fullness. It has nothing to do with our works, our deeds, our emptying, our effectiveness, our requests, or anything whatsoever to do with us. He bestows His fullness of Himself to us on salvation. It is all about Christ.

For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen. (Ephesians 3:14-21)

[By Elizabeth Prata]

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One of God’s judgments on people are false teachers

Posted on June 10, 2016 by elizabethprata

Repost from March 2012 with some edits added.

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires.” (2 Timothy 4:3)

“False teachers are God’s judgment on people who don’t want God, but in the name of religion plan on getting everything their carnal heart desires. That’s why a Joel Osteen is raised up. Those people who sit under him are not victims of him but he is the judgment of God upon them. And they want exactly what he wants, and it’s not God.” ~ Paul Washer

We often think that the verse means that people who sit under a Joel Osteen or a Beth Moore are hapless victims, fallen prey to the insidious destruction of the prowling false teacher. No. The verse clearly shows us that people are the agitators, they are their own catalysts for false teachers being raised up. The people “accumulate for themselves” teachers who match their passions.

Notice that the onus of the act is on the people, NOT the teachers (not that I am saying the teachers escape culpability). But the people who have passions search out and look for false teachers that match those passions, and “accumulate for themselves” these teachers. And the teachers are only too happy to comply, because there is money in it, the usual reason false teachers want to be false teachers. (2 Peter 2:3). Paul Washer said someone like an Osteen is not making victims of the people he IS the JUDGMENT upon the people! In other words, they asked for him, they got him!

So people who want affirmation of their emotions in mystical visions, seek out a Beth Moore. People who seek prosperity and are greedy at heart seek out a Joel Osteen. People who are focused on the body and healing seek out a Benny Hinn. And so on. Prideful people who want to think they are earning their own salvation seek out the Pope. They accumulate for themselves the false teacher…

Here is Washer, explaining the verse:

[By Elizabeth Prata]

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Discernment Lesson: Deconstructing Beth Moore’s most popular story

Posted on June 9, 2016June 9, 2016 by elizabethprata

My first introduction to Beth Moore was in 2011 at a Southern Baptist Church in Georgia I was a member of at the time. The women regularly read her books, talked about her, and watched her show on LifeToday, where it was broadcast then. Now it is broadcast on TBN, tucked in a scheduling line-up among many well known heretics and false teachers.

I was invited to go along on a Ladies Retreat weekend. We would launch our study from having watched a Beth Moore DVD segment. The Ladies Ministry leader (pastor’s wife) would then facilitate a discussion. The centerpiece on day 1 of the video teaching was Beth Moore telling a story about being in an airport and sitting next to a old man in a wheelchair with extremely matted hair. It’s known as the Hairbrush Story.

Continue reading “Discernment Lesson: Deconstructing Beth Moore’s most popular story” →

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Beware of desiring a vision/dream/word from the Lord

Posted on June 8, 2016June 8, 2016 by elizabethprata

dream women — Women who claim to have heard God’s voice. Clockwise, Kim Smith, Beth Moore, Joanna Gaines, Ann Voskamp.

I hear so many of the false teachers saying these days they had a dream where they were loved on by Jesus and it was so emotionally sweet. Or they say they had a vision where Jesus called her honey and babe and He took her to the zoo so she could have a nice play date. Or they have a word from the Lord where He softly whispered sweet nothings. Or they are communing with Him in a garden and He audibly calls her name and gives her specific career instructions and encouragement and personal promises of success if she would just obey what is already written in the Word. Or they describe their vision of how he showed them how they complete Jesus.
Others hear about these visitations, and become jealous or discouraged that they are not also receiving such personal ministrations from their heavenly boyfriend Almighty Ancient of Days.

Have you noticed that whenever these women speak of having a personal visit/dream/word it is always sweet and wooing, but never GOD-like? Two weeks ago my pastor was teaching on the passage in Genesis 20, the section on Abraham and Abimelech.
Continue reading “Beware of desiring a vision/dream/word from the Lord” →