Category: discernment

Posted in beth moore, discernment, false teachers, james murphy, jentezen franklin, Joyce Meyer, osteen

It is important to be discerning!

Posted on by elizabethprata

By Elizabeth Prata

A warning from my heart. One thing that strikes me is how few (seemingly) Christians really know how late the hour is. I’m still struck by Pastor James Murphy’s sermon, the raw and pointed one he delivered last Sunday in Johnson City NY. He said that the time has come to stop fooling around. Knowing the Word of God through diligent study and practice of discernment is too important. And he said, shame on them if they didn’t think it was important. It is.

And if we know the word of God we know how late the hour is. Paul said that we are children of the Light and will not be surprised as we see the Day approaching. (1 Thess 5:4.) The writer of Hebrews said that we should not stop assembling together, we should do it all the more as we see the Day approaching. (Hebrews 10:25). Not as we believe the day is approaching. Not as we pray that the day might be approaching. As we SEE the day approaching.

Knowing the lateness of the hour ties in with this verse: “For where your treasure is, there your heart shall be also.” (Matthew 6:21). Is our treasure Jesus? Or is it this world? At this late hour are we part of a Laodicean church? Jesus had charges against that church-

‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.” (Rev 3:15-18).

The Worship of Mammon, E. DeMorgan, 1909

Are we buying gold from Mammon? So that we may be comfortable and rich and have need of nothing? And so not have need of Jesus? Are we walking in self-confidence (Beth Moore), satisfied with our best life now (Joel Osteen), doing lukewarm works with Jesus as a footnote (Rick Warren), manipulating God so he will be forced to release the blessing (Joyce Meyer), begging for ‘seed money’ (Jentezen Franklin) and throwing people who “hinder” us off the bus where the bodies are piling up? (Mark Driscoll)?

Or are we the church at Philadelphia, where Jesus said we “have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.” ?

That is the main problem with the global church body today, but especially UK, Canada, Australia and US. We deny Jesus. Oh, sure, a name of Jesus is preached from pulpits, if they even dare to call it a pulpit, some just call it a podium, but it is from a different Gospel and it refers to a different Jesus. THE Jesus of the Bible is denied again and again.

Over 120 years ago Charles Haddon Spurgeon predicted, “A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats.” Oh, how right he was.

Our generation is “Sacrificing biblical truth for the cause of ecumenical unity and promotion of carnal methodology in churches are the norm of our age” wrote Chris Lawson in his April newsletter, “Clowning around in the pulpit.” He wrote, “Instead of playing fast and loose with God’s church, Christian leaders ought to be discussing Bible prophecy in light of global events and teaching biblical discernment in light of the end-times apostasy.”

Oh how right he is. Are pastors, teachers, and leaders teaching biblical discernment? A few. Praise them, and thank you Lord for raising up the pastors and teachers who are. But they are increasingly few…Grant Jeffrey is home with the Lord now, as is David Wilkerson, Adrian Rogers, and others. I see few discerning elders on the near horizon to take their place. And increasingly, the ones who are still teaching and preaching biblical discernment are not listened to. I wonder what the fallout has been for Pastor James Murphy up in Johnson City.

Thus, today, instead of the norm in our Bible-believing churches being the Prince of Preachers warning 120 years ago about the coming clown parade,

Believers are warned again and again throughout the Old Testament and the New about the dangers of idols, false teaching and false prophets. Are we, in the twenty-first century so smart that we can afford to ignore these? No. Are we who are the generation living in the latter days so advanced that we can ignore the warnings of end of times apostasy? No.

So what are we to do? John MacArthur preached on the verses from  Thessalonians 5:21-22, in a series titled “A Call for Discernment.” In part 1 he said, “We cannot for a moment believe that every one who claims to be in Christ and to speak on behalf of Christ is speaking the truth.” But yet so many people do. In 1 Thess 5:16 “starting with verse 16, Paul has been listing the basics of Christian living…rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus, do not quench the Spirit, do not despise Scripture or the revelation of God. And now he comes to this one, examine everything.”

Just because a person says they come in the name of Christ, they may not. Just because they are popular or long-lasting, doesn’t mean they get a pass on whether they should be examined. The Bereans were called noble for examining the scriptures to see if they lined up with what Paul said. And Paul loved it.

Here are some discernment resources:

MacArthur Sermons-
A Call For Discernment Part 1
A Call for Discernment Part 2
A Call for Discernment Part 3

Books-
The Discipline of Spiritual Discernment by Tim Challies
A Call for Discernment, Jay Adams

Study-
Discernment is a Commandment
Discernment in the Church
Discernment and the Watchman

The best Resource of all is the Holy Spirit! And the Bible itself.

Brethren, the hour is late. The watchword of the day is not our pits or self or confidence or release or seed or seeker. Repentance is the watchword, because after that, comes wrath.

Posted in discernment, false doctrine, the subtlety of satan

How a Pastor guards his flock: Jim Murphy’s sermon "The Subtlety of Satan" Part 2: God takes away the discernment of the elders

Posted on by elizabethprata

By Elizabeth Prata

Earlier today I wrote of a pastor in Johnson City NY who had preached a raw and compelling sermon to his flock on Sunday. The sermon is called The Subtlety of Satan, and it is a blessing and an encouragement to Christians who are fainting at the Tsunami waves of falsity swamping us, and the lack of reaction from brethren, leaders, and pastors who either don’t comment or worse, purposely allow it. In these dangerous times Paul wrote about, we know wolves will infiltrate the church, bringing with them poisonous teachings, false doctrine, myths of men, and much more.

But where are the discerning leaders who are protecting their sheep, speaking out against the false and wrong and dangerous? They are out there, laboring in corners of the nations, in home churches, in large churches, in small churches. Most of the time they are unacknowledged, and in many cases, unappreciated. The strong brother in a church sliding to apostasy may feel lonely, but there are still strong members of the body speaking for truth out there. The Lord is good to raise up strong, discerning, unafraid pastors who stand for truth in a dying, lying world. In this case, one of these strong pastors came to our attention. Thank you Lord.

Pastor Jim preached a sermon that was full of raw faith and strength, fierce for the truth and potent in warnings. It is called The Subtlety of Satan, by Pastor Jim Murphy at First Baptist Church of Johnson City, NY.

Deception is subtle. How do I know? Because satan is the liar and the father of lies, (John 8:44), who is out to steal, kill, and destroy. (John 10:10). That is what the Word of God tells us. Further, it tells us that satan is the most subtle creature in the garden. (Genesis 3:1). We must not ignore the many warnings in both testaments about falsity. There is one True God and He is to be held above all else. He died to bring us the true testimony of the Gospel that saves.

Speaking against deception is speaking for Jesus.

Some may ask, OK, that is all well and good, but why does the pastor, or anyone, have to name names? Isn’t that unloving? No. Here is an analogy. We’ll use food. The word feeds us. (I Peter 2:2; Matthew 4:4; Job 23:12). Jesus is the bread of life. We thirst and He is the living water. There is good leaven and bad leaven. Food is the analogy.

So Baptists are known for their covered dish suppers. In the north they’re known as pot luck suppers. Long tables laden with food groan under the weight of all the covered dishes atop them which people brought. Church members gather to have fellowship or to celebrate. They eat together.

Source Decatur Daily

Scenario A: (names are made up)

Pastor Joe Smith is completely undiscerning. He has no idea that some of the food his flock are about to eat contains worms, dung, and poison. He does not warn them that wolves brought that food, because he does not know they are wolves. Why? If a pastor, teacher or elder fails consistently enough to pursue truth and learn to discern wheat from chaff, and fails to teach his flock how to discern good from evil, sometimes God takes away the discernment of the elders.

“He deprives of speech those who are trusted and takes away the discernment of the elders.” (Job 12:20, ESV).

Gills’ Exposition, “Speech is proper to mankind, and a benefit unto them, whereby they can converse together, and communicate their minds to each other; this is the gift of God.” One of the Spirit’s gifts to men is that we are brought into the Light of His truth by seeking Him through His word. If He gives the gift of discernment, He can also take it away- and He does.

Geneva Bible Study warns of the results of the Job verse, “He causes their words to have no credit, which is when he will punish sin.”

These sheep under Pastor Joe Smith are at great risk. Not only are they not being warned, but they are through passive means being taught not to discern. And so, the students will become like their teacher. (Luke 6:40).

Scenario B1:

Pastor Pete Jones organizes a covered dish supper in his church’s fellowship hall. He knows that some of the people bringing food to the table are wolves, and he knows that some of the food will make his people sick, or even poison them. He has discernment, but he has a skewed view of what being “loving” is. His people eat heartily, pray, and sing, then they go home. Reports start to come in that this one is in the hospital, or that one fell away from church because they got sick, or this one died. Tearful congregants approach the pastor, and bitterly ask him, “You knew some of the food was bad! Why didn’t you warn us?” Pastor Peter replies, “Well, I didn’t want to be unloving. I thought that the wolves would be struck in their heart by our loving and tolerant attitude, seeing that we accept all food equally and in love, and they would convert.”

Scenario B2:

Mindful of the disaster at his previous church, pastor Pete, at a new church now, has grown a bit (a tiny bit) in his discernment. He organizes another covered dish supper. He knows that some of the people bringing food to the table are wolves. He knows which ones are wolves, too. He knows that some of the food will make his people sick, or even poison them. The potato salad has been left in the sun for hours, the hamburgers have e coli, and the apple pie was laced with cyanide. He knows which food is bad but he sees all the good food too. However, not wanting to have a repeat of the disaster that happened before, He prays over the food, and he warns his flock.

“People! Listen! Some of this food is bad for you! Some of it will make you sick. Some of it will kill you. Some of it will be delicious and fill you up. There. I have warned you.”

“But pastor, which food is bad? Who brought the poisonous dishes?”

“People. It would be unloving of me to name names. We might hurt that person’s feelings. It would be unloving of me to point to which food is bad, because they spent a long time making it and they brought it here sincerely today. We must not judge! OK, enough said, Buon Appetit!”

Scenario C:

Pastor Lupus organizes a covered dish supper. Over the course of the week, he had called his Canis friends and asked them to bring poisoned food to the supper. He sees that there are too many people in his congregation loving the Lord. He hates this. He wants to weed those Christians out. So he brings diseased food and knowingly feeds his flock with it. He knows that those strong eaters of the food will soon be gone and he will need his pews filled up. He doesn’t care that the strong ones go away and the weak ones die. He just wants replacements to fill his pews so he will look good. Feeding them evil food is the best way to do it. But he does it slowly and on the sly. He is the wolf, baying to his wolf friends to come into the church. The covered dish supper is the means to break his church because direct poison kills swiftly.

Many people were surprised that John Piper made Pastor Jim Murphy’s list of those who are failing their duty and who are bringing a false word. Piper has been a towering man of the faith for many years. But he is slipping. Not possible you say? Not Piper! Really? Look what happened to Solomon. The wisest man who ever lived became foolish in his old age. Is Piper different, or excused, or immune to the same fate? Are any of us? No.

The Lord God organizes all the affairs of men. He does what He wills. Discernment is a gift from Him, and a  mercy and a help. When He sees fit, He takes it away.

Matthew Henry comments on the Job verse about when Lord takes away the discernment of the elders. Think of John Piper when you read it. Or substitute any voice which once was strong but now is not.

“Those that were famed for eloquence, and entrusted with public business, are strangely silenced, and have nothing to say. He removeth away the speech of the trusty, so that they cannot speak as they intended and as they used to do, with freedom and clearness, but blunder, and falter, and make nothing of it.”

“Those that were bold and courageous, and made nothing of dangers, are strangely cowed and dispirited; and this also is the Lord’s doing: He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people, that were their leaders and commanders, and were most famed for their martial fire and great achievements; when any thing is to be done they are heartless, and ready to flee at the shaking of a leaf. Those that were driving on their projects with full speed are strangely bewildered and at a loss; they know not where they are nor what they do, are unsteady in their counsels and uncertain in their motions, off and on, this way and that way, wandering like men in a desert.”

Is John Piper excluded from this danger just because he is an elder of the faith, so successful for so many years? No! As a matter of fact he is more at risk. “The stouthearted were stripped of their spoil; they sank into sleep; all the men of war were unable to use their hands.” (Psalm 76:5).

That is why I keep saying, pray for our pastors! Pray, pray, pray; and then pray some more. He is a gift from God! And the pastors who are not discerning, not bold, not warning us? They are a judgment from God. Which pulpit do you want to sit in front of? Just think about that the next time you go to a covered dish supper. Which food are you being fed? Good healthy food (doctrine)? Or poisonous food (doctrine)? Don’t you want a pastor who will love you enough to feed you good food and to teach you how to tell if the food is good? And don’t you care enough about yourself- you who Jesus died for-to then go out and practice that discernment and growing in strength to detect good doctrine from bad, so you can then turn around and teach others?

Pray for Pastor Jim, if you would. God has blessed him with discernment, strength and fire! Do you see from this lesson how that is a gift and a blessing straight from God? Pray for the ones Pastor Jim named who are false. Pray for each other, “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people” (1 Timothy 2:1 ESV). In all things, pray. (Phil 4:6)

Posted in discernment, fruit inspectors, judge not

On being fruit inspectors

Posted on by elizabethprata

I hear this line often: “We’re not supposed to be fruit inspectors, you know!” People say this a lot too: “Judge not lest ye be judged!”

Well…actually…we are supposed to inspect fruit and we are supposed to judge.

The word ‘judge’ here in the way we have come to use it is kind of an unfortunate one. It doesn’t mean to judge unto condemnation. Only God does that. It means to discern by carefully detecting whether a person’s words line up with the bible and whether their character is bearing good fruit from a good tree.

And yet when people are confronted by a statement or claim that this preacher or that teacher is false, and back it up with the bible, they invariably allege verbal misconduct on the speaker’s part and do the very thing they say we should not do: judge the speaker. Ever consider the irony, rather the hypocrisy? “I judge that you are wrong for judging!” LOL. Here is what the Matthew verse actually says in context:

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.” (Matthew 7:1-5).

1. In that set of verses, Jesus gave a procedure for us to employ for when we DO judge. Not ‘if” we judge, “when” we judge. First is to make sure we have repented to Jesus. Are we ourselves are in good standing with Him? Have we let sin pile up in our lives? That is the log. When we view others through the filter of our own unrepented sins it colors our perspective and partially blocks our view.

So the first part of the process is to examine ourselves to see if we are a hypocrite. Once that is completed, presumably through prayer, repentance, biblical study and perhaps fasting, then we are clear to judge. The Greek word is translated judge…or decide. To come to a choice, make a decision about something.

To the people who say we should not judge, what you are really saying is that we should never make a decision about anything that we come into contact with in our Christian walk. Not hardly!

2. Other times, people will look at the fact that there seems to be fruit and decide that person must be good based on that assessment alone. But that, too, is judging. Irony alert. People do this especially when there seems to be a LOT of fruit, or fruit has been bearing out for a long time, like Teresa of Calcutta’s work with the poor for 50 years. But what are fruits? Are fruits simply good things that people do? Here is the scripture that deals with the subject:

“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.” (Matthew 7:15-20).

So now that we have cleared the log from our eye, the second point is that we look for fruits- AND we look at the tree! How do we do that?

3. First, inspect the tree. In Maine we had a 100 foot tall pine tree leaning over our house. We suspected it was dead, but of course we couldn’t see the inside of it. And we didn’t want to tear it down if it wasn’t dead. We hired an arborist to come give an assessment, and he said that the tree was dying. There were symptoms that in his expertness told him so, such as the leaning over, the mounding at the roots, the sandy soil that wasn’t nutritious, among other things. But only when we had removed the tree and exposed the inside did we see the truth: the tree had heart rot. The entire inside was rotten. Practically only the bark was holding the tree up at all! So decide if the tree is good or evil.

An application of that inspection would be the book The Shack. The Shack is said to be good fruit by man, evidence of a good work in bringing the love of Jesus to many millions. But what tree did the apparently fruitful book come from? William P. Young.

Mr Young does not believe Jesus is the sacrificial substitutionary atonement for sins. He is actually a Universalist. This is an evil tree. I am not saying he is evil, but that the false doctrine that he holds in his heart leads to heart-rot and a rotten heart cannot produce good fruit. No matter how healthy the fruit looks on the outside, it will contain stuff that you don’t want to ingest. Let’s take a look–

4. Inspect the fruit the tree bears. Really! Well, would you eat a piece of fruit that you haven’t judged as healthy? Look here. This is my apple tree. I walked out there and looked to see if there were fruits yet. Yay! There are! Mmm, that red one looks lovely.

Those fruits look good. After all, they are apples, from an apple tree. If I never judged them by their fruits I’d just yank the red one off the tree and take a big, juicy bite out of it.

But I don’t do that. Before I ingest anything, I make sure it is healthy and won’t harm me. Don’t you look at what you eat, first? So I inspected the fruit. How did I do this? I got closer. I looked at it from every angle. I took my time. And…oh, no!

The other side of the red apple was rotten. I don’t know how or why, but it was not safe to ingest. Is it a bad tree? It might be. Maybe it is dying. Maybe its interior is rotten. I read the first 75 pages of The Shack. I thought it was well-written and had a good premise: how to deal with horrible things that happen to children. But as I read, alarms went off. I inspected the theology behind the book, sin isn’t punished, God is a woman, The Spirit is a woman, the bible is dusty and outdated, there are many ways to heaven…and I realized that this was not a fruit of Mr Young’s that I wanted to ingest. The tree isn’t good.

We are not God and only He can see the heart rot. But we can examine the external symptoms that lead to a tree’s death and decide, or judge, whether the thing is living or dying. I won’t eat that apple! I am glad I am a fruit inspector!

4. Where is the fruit? He is the true vine. (John 15:1). Apart from Him we can do nothing. “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.” (John 15:4-5).

Sometimes fruit falls off the tree and rolls away.You are being a fruit inspector when you see this and you determine it is not good fruit.

I think everyone would agree that is bad fruit lying on the ground there. It isn’t attached to the branch, that’s why. It shriveled up and got no living water and it is a dead fruit now. Oh, but don’t judge that poor fruit! It couldn’t help shriveling up! Ack.

There is a man in Australia today who says he is Jesus Christ, returned, and his wife is Mary Magdalene. (More on him in a later post). The duo bought up land and they have followers who bought land and they are making a compound. The cult now has half a dozen branches in Australia, in branches in half a dozen other nations, too, including the US (Brevard County FL and Las Vegas). Would you ignore his claims that he is Jesus by saying, “But he gives to the needy! He organizes food distribution to tornado victims! He is so nice! Who are you to inspect his fruits! Judge not!” No, you would not say that, (I hope). So when you reject the Australian man as Jesus, you are judging and you are inspecting fruits.

What I am getting at is that the closer one looks like the real thing the more outcry we get about not inspecting their fruits and not judging them. But we must inspect all who claim to come in the name of the Lord! Not just the easy ones like The Shack and not just the wacky ones like the Australian Jesus.

But people like Billy Graham and Beth Moore and Jentezen Franklin and Joel Osteen and Joseph Prince do seemingly good things, and seemingly bear fruit, but they say things that indicate they are not doing them in the strength of the branch and in fact are apart from the vine. Their fruits, after a while, will be shown to be the wasp-ridden, bug-infested seemingly good fruit that is on the ground even if initially they looked healthy.

Like this one.

It looks good. It might be good to eat. It hasn’t been off the branch for very long. It is still coasting on the nutrients it had absorbed while it had been attached. But I better check it out anyway. You know that the minute fruit is off the tree, bugs and wasps and worms will be attracted to it. I sure don’t want to bite into a wasp! I will inspect this fruit.

Oh no! I’m so glad I inspected this, and I judge it not fit to eat. The fruit was borne but it went away from its branch. There are harmful things on this fruit I was not aware of until I looked closer.

Just because someone ministers, sacrifices, or helps does not mean automatically that they are good. Further inspection is necessary. Is the tree healthy? Is the tree bearing fruit? Is the fruit that it bears consistent with the kind of tree that it is? Is the fruit good, or rotten? Is the fruit on the branch or off the branch? These are the inspections we need to make.

In case you’re still clinging to the notion that we ‘judge not’ and we aren’t fruit inspectors, 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 says, “Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?”

We are warned to beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but “inwardly they are ravening wolves.” They have heart-rot that is not evident at first. How could we “beware” and how could we know they’re “false prophets” if we don’t judge? The Lord asking us to judge. Do so carefully, respectfully, prayerfully, lovingly, and not hypocritically, but do judge (decide). And to judge you have to inspect first.

Posted in discernment, jesus, youtube

Discerning the times: checking what a youtube prophet says against the Word

Posted on by elizabethprata

Many Christians today feel the burden of the times. Many more feel an imminence that is akin to a pregnant woman about to burst. Even the unsaved feel like something is coming.

And something IS coming: Jesus. The times are definitely drawing to a close and though no one knows exactly when, the Spirit is sending fervor and imminence to many. He raised up many people who send the warnings about the times, as He has done with me.

But He also said that this time will be perilous for Christians (2 Timothy 3:1) and that it will be a time that is permeated with deceit. In Matthew 24:4-5 He said “And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many”. As the Strong’s word concordance says of the word ‘misleads’, the Greek word Paul used is plané which means “a wandering; deceit, delusion, error, sin.” That verse means people will come in Christ’s name to lead us wandering sheep away from the truth into delusion.

This steady rising of deceit that is mentioned so many times in relation to the end times in so many books and verses, will culminate in total deceit on earth in the Tribulation when the Lord sends the great delusion that will come over the world, and they accept the antichrist. (2 Thess 2:10-11). He will remove the moderating influence of the Holy Spirit as Restrainer (2 Thess 2:6).

So it behooves us to heed warnings about people who come in Christ’s name with messages that may be false. We are also warned by watchmen to heed true warnings about the times and to live a Godly life. It is up to each Christian to pray for the Spirit to lead them into discernment when listening to or reading messages, including mine. Test all things against scripture.

Here is a discernment lesson regarding one of the new Youtube prophets someone sent me to look at. Now this person was thrilled to have discovered him. I listened to several of his youtube clips. I was not as thrilled. I really hate throwing cold water on people’s excitement, but if the excitement is over someone or something that may be false, then isn’t it better to have cold water thrown than to go away under an unfortunate spiritual impression? Water dries but cold water at least gives us all a shock to stop a moment and consider things.

So I decided to post this as a discernment lesson. It is an insight into how I approach the issue of determining for myself whether someone may be speaking truth or not.

  • First, I pray that the Spirit lead and guide me into the scriptures that will speak to the discernment I seek.
  • Then I do look those verses up and check them in the bible.
  • I pray for an attitude of gentleness but boldness in stating what the Spirit had led me to.

The young man, whose name is not on his Youtube account, but goes by “warningthepeople”, mentions several times about having been a paid pastor and stepping away to be a watchman, foregoing any payment at all. He focuses on that. What does the bible say about being paid?

Being paid as a pastor is not necessarily a bad thing nor is it necessarily a good thing, but it is a biblical thing.

1 Timothy 5:17-18, “The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, ‘Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain,’ and ‘The worker deserves his wages.’” 1 Corinthians 9:14 declares, “In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.”

So being paid is a biblical thing and at root, a neutral thing. It’s not good nor bad but necessary. Here is a link to a short essay about whether a pastor should be paid. In these links I give, the scriptures are in the essay.

Therefore if this Youtube person has received a word from the Lord about not being paid, I must wonder why what Jesus told him about not being paid contradicts what He already said in the bible.

I also wonder if he was a paid pastor presumably he had come previous calling to that work, and if he is being called away from it now (so soon? He looks young) then why Jesus would contradict Himself by first calling him to the pastorate and then tell him to quit the pastorate… Philippians 1:6 says “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.” Did Jesus fumble in calling the young man to be a pastor? Did He change His mind? Did he train him up with a flock only to tell him to abandon that flock? Likely not.

Here is a link discussing how a pastor can know if he is being called to be a pastor and this link, “A call to Ministry.“

Third, he said that he was told by Jesus in this new ministry as watchman to warn his friends and family. Since he had been a paid pastor and had some training at college in Biblical Studies, a license, some passion for the Gospel, and some skill at it (he had earned so much respect as he stated) then why hadn’t he warned his family and friends before his calling to give it all up to be a watchman? Warning friends and family is usually the first thing pastors do and do it relentlessly (if skillfully and gently).

Being a pastor is also a call to be a watchman. A Pastor preaches the entire counsel of God, which includes the doctrine of His coming. (Acts 20:20, 27). A Pastor means shepherd and a shepherd watches his flock and guards his flock warns of dangerous things, so the two ministries are not incompatible, they are actually intertwined. Yet the young man seemed to separate them one as far from the east as from the west…

Fourth: I am not sure I agree with his interpretation of Ezekiel 33 about the watchman who fails his duty. He said that watchmen who fail to warn will be thrown into hell. If a person is saved according to the New Testament, nothing can snatch him out of Jesus’s hand. (John 10:28). We have eternal security. However it is true that those who are called to teach and preach are entering into a serious relationship with Jesus with special burdens. Paul says Acts 20, “I am clear from the blood of any man, I have not failed to declare unto you the whole counsel of God. I’ve discharged my duty.” Hebrews 13:17 says that we have to give an account to God for how we give leadership and direction and teaching to God’s people. It is indeed a serious issue. “Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.” (James 3:1)

But if a person is saved under the New Covenant of the cross they will not be thrown into hell for failing duties. If that were true we would all be at risk of failing commands of God, such as failing the Great Commission, failing the Greatest Commandment (Luke 10:27) and other commands that are just as explicit as the call to the Old Testament watchmen. We are saved. That is what saved means, saved from hell.

One must be careful not to extrapolate with impunity the OT to the NT. Careful exegesis demands we look at the entire book, we look at all the verses in context, to whom it was written, why it was written, when it was written, and appeal to the Spirit for proper application of the verse. I don’t think the young man has done that here.

Most worrisome, in his video on his personal testimony, he never mentions how he was saved. He speaks of growing up in the church, but not of his repentance, his sin, and Jesus’s authority as Sinless Savior to forgive these. Worse, he says that at age 23 he came to a crisis of faith, and wondered how he could determine if the “religion” he was in was the true one. How did he know if his denomination was right, or whether a Buddhist had more wisdom in settling on his own faith? Foremost I must say, we don’t exist in a religion, we dwell in the holy relationship with Christ. Every true Christian knows that. But be that as it may, the young man said he posted cards all around asking the Spirit to lead him into truth. He did not say he searched the scriptures, as Paul said is the more noble way to do in Acts 17:11. Instead, he found truth in dreams the “Lord” sent. That is a dead giveaway that he is a false prophet. Elevating personal experience over scriptural truth is absolutely wrong. Even Peter, who saw the transfiguration, said that we have a more sure word.

Henry Morris said in the Institute for Creation Research: “We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.” (2 Peter 1:19). As eyewitnesses, they bore the onus of bearing witness to the facts. But he downplayed the importance of his own personal testimony, even though it was a firsthand account and quite important, and he knew it was absolutely correct. The “more sure word of prophecy” he recommended, however, which outshines any human testimony, was the written Word of God, for the Transfiguration confirmed numerous Old Testament prophecies concerning Christ. Prophecies already fulfilled multiply our confidence in the rest of Scripture.”

Personal testimony from dreams is not inerrant. The Word is.

Next: I worry that the gentleman says many times that he will do what Jesus “tells” him to do. Does he hear these commands audibly? Does he hear them in dreams and visions? (Some, he says, yes). Are they new revelations or are they commands to exhortation from what is already written? How has the gentleman discerned that these audible commands telling him to do certain things are in fact from Jesus? Or has he? I don’t think he has, because he relates dreams and does not share the scriptures.

I am always skeptical of people who say that have had dreams and visions and that Jesus told them to say things to the people. I’m skeptical because God’s final word is through Jesus and Jesus IS His word. (John 1:1-5 and Hebrews 1:1-2). There are no new revelations. If the gentleman wants to be obedient to Jesus that is wonderful! But he must do so under the direction of the Spirit’s leading him into understanding of the Word. Not a disembodied voice telling him to do things…

In one youtube clip he related a dream but then said that it was up to us to interpret it. However, in Scripture, whenever a person asked God for the meaning of a vision, God ensured it was explained to the person (Daniel 8:15-17).

The young man speaks of the Lord giving him messages in dreams to then relate to the people. I do not believe that what he is dreaming is directly from Jesus. As stated above, the revelatory period of direct message by Jesus to His people is over, and it is all contained in His word. Revelation 22:18-19 says that no one may add nor take away from the words of that book. Some have tried to say that only applies to Revelation but Revelation is the last book. With that warning, Jesus closed the canon. You can go here to read a short essay from a solid bible teacher about prophecy and the closed canon–

Prophecy and the Closed Canon

We are all hungry for more information. We are all hungry for insights into the times and what is happening behind the scenes. Would that we were all given a glimpse like Elisha’s servant (2 Kings 6:17) or a glimpse like Paul was given (2 Cor 12:2)! But Paul was explicitly told not to say what went on there. And the inside glimpses we are given are contained in the Word.

The bible tells us all we need to know. I ask you gently to consider these thoughts and concerns and to seek answers from scripture as to whether what I shared with you is aligned with the Word, and to compare to what the young watchman has to say with the word also. That is how I came to the conclusion he is not someone we should listen to. Many people are raising up who claim special insights from Jesus. But unless they found them by the Spirit leading them into truth by the Holy Word, then they are false. No truth exists outside of the bible.

I believe the time is short, and therefore I cling to the words of the bible more than ever and I compare the words of men with what the bible says. And because time is short, we will know all that God intends for us to know, shortly! (1 Cor 13:9-12). I truly believe that there are no extra glimpses prior to that time.

If we pray, study the word, and are VERY familiar with the real thing, then when a counterfeit comes along we can spot it. In this way we grow in Him. Then we shall not be children any longer, or tossed one way and another and carried along by every wind of doctrine, at the mercy of all the tricks men play and their cleverness in practicing deceit. If we live by the truth and in love, we shall grow in all ways into Christ, who is the head. (Eph 4:14-15)

Posted in discernment, watchman

"Asleep on the watch"

Posted on by elizabethprata

“Somebody please wake the watchmen! I would rather have sadness and grief with much tears, bringing us to repentance, than to continue to see the churches being infiltrated and assimilated by New Age Occultism, false teaching, heresies, philosophies of men and doctrines of demons as the watchmen sleep.” (source)

Another good article on the biblical explanation of what a watchman does from the Old Testament and New Testament, here.

Posted in back to basics, discernment

Back to Basics: What discernment is

Posted on by elizabethprata

We in the body of Christ are not to judge those outside the church, (1 Cor 5:12). That is because, as Barnes Notes explains, “I have no authority over them; and can exercise no jurisdiction over them. All my rules, therefore, must have reference only to those who are within the church.” However, we inside the church are to judge for ourselves whether a teaching is true or not. (1 Corinthians 5:12-13).

Romans 12:9; 1 Cor 14:29; 1 John 4:1 also reminds us that we are to judge, discern, test, etc., the teachings we  receive. The Bereans searched whether Paul’s teaching was consistent with the bible, and tested what they heard against it. Paul applauded them for that. Given what we see from Christians today, even if they DO go so far as to test it out, if they find the teaching failed the test, they then remain silent so as to pursue a sense of unity. This is a wrong-headed approach. Any unity arising by silent believers suffering under a teaching they know to be false is a false unity. We are not told so many times in those verses above to test out the teachings we receive just so we can stay quiet about the false ones. We are to speak up.

We don’t use the heart to judge a teaching. Just because someone says their teaching is “from their heart” or it looks to us that it is heartfelt, or it touches our heart, we are liable to hear Jesus chastise us through His word, “Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment.” (John 7:24). Anyone can look sincere. Joel Osteen looks very heartfelt, his speeches come across as being from his heart. But are they consistent with what the bible says? No. Being discerning means looking deeper.

We are being gullible if we fall for the old “from the heart” standard. Why? Because the “heart is deceitful above all things and desperately sick, who can know it?” (Jer 17:9). The heart is the WORST standard to judge anything. Joseph Smith’s teaching is from the heart and his religion consigned many millions to darkness (Mormonism). Muhammad’s teaching is from the heart and many millions following Allah are likewise consigned to darkness. Oprah is teaching New Age ecumenism from the heart and also many who follow it will end up in eternal darkness. Being heartfelt has nothing to do with whether a teaching is right.

If a person’s standard to determine if a false teaching is

–from the heart
–the teacher seems like a religious person
–they are prospering so it means God is blessing them, so it must be good

then I submit that person is dangerously misled as to what biblical discernment is.

Those standards are exactly the opposite of what we should be using as a barometer for determining if a teacher is true or false. Discernment is not a “nudge from the Spirit,” because that calls for subjective decisions and as per the verse about the heart, subjective assessments on any given situation are not valid. The only way to practice discernment is to test against the bible. (1 Thess 5:21).

Tim Challies wrote a book about Discernment. He defines it this way:

” ‘Discernment is the ability to think biblically about all areas of life.’ A longer, more thorough definition might be something like this: ‘Spiritual discernment is the God-given, Spirit-empowered ability to understand and interpret truth, so that we can apply truth to our lives, thus bringing glory to God and furthering our enjoyment of Him.”

“The Hebrew word for discernment is used 247 times in the Old Testament. The word has been translated variously as understand, discern, and distinguish. The Greek word is used similarly in the New Testament. It too refers to a process of separating or discriminating whereby truth may be set apart in relief from that which is false. In short, discernment is a filtering process by which a person distinguishes and separates good from the bad, right from wrong, and truth from error.” (source: Tim Challies, “Defining Discernment” )

If a person does that, they are being led by the Holy Spirit. I pray you come to this understanding as well, and be unafraid to discern a good teaching from a bad, and to speak up about both. Praise good teaching, point out false teaching, and as always, pray ceaselessly. “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). Don’t fall prey to one of them. Be discerning.

Posted in discernment, end of days. prophecy, end time

What discernment and prophecy blogs are for

Posted on by elizabethprata

Discernment ministries and end time prophetic ministries are like the Doppler effect. The Doppler effect is heard when, say, a vehicle sounding a siren or horn approaches you, passes, and goes away from you. The frequency is higher during the approach, it is correct at the instant of passing by, and it is lower during the going away.

When you hear a siren, your ears perk up, even when it is in the distance. As it approaches you might think “Gee, it’s getting closer, I hope everything is OK.’ You listen for a moment to determine of the siren is indicating a fire near you or a crime that you should be worried about in your immediate vicinity. As the siren recedes you breathe an unconscious sigh of relief. You know that there are first responders at the scene who are helping and attending to the afflicted. You go your way relaxing at each step, initially relieved that the siren is now out of earshot and secure in the knowledge that others are on the case.

We don’t partake of a steady diet of the siren. For example, if you get the siren from the police car and install it in your home, you will become irritated after a while, then aggravated, then angry. It will totally consume everything you hear, think about or talk about, rather than the other normal things you do in your home.

Discernment and Prophetic ministries are that siren. You’re not supposed to live on a steady diet of it. Discernment verses are in the bible and prophecy makes up one third of the bible, but even at that, there is OTHER meat we live upon. The first responders at the scene are other Christians, attending to neighbors, caring for them in the ways that they need. The siren alerts you, but only to let you know that there is an urgency somewhere in the world. You need to go along and join the people helping at the place where help is needed, not sit and listen to the siren all the time.

What I and others do is give you the tools you need to begin appealing to the Spirit for discernment. It isn’t to educate you on each and every false doctrine. It isn’t for you to ingest a steady diet of falsity apart from the truth of the bible and Jesus. It is to give you a grounding of what is true balanced against what is false, and to learn to begin regularly appealing to the Spirit for greater depth in distinguishing between the two. I’ll give you an example from my own life.

When I first came to the Lord, I was fascinated with fallen angels and the demonic realms. I studied the topic intensely. I bought books, I read web pages, I watched youtube videos. After about four or five months I realized that quite some time had gone by since I’d listened to a sermon on some good meat such as the Gospel, or the life of Jesus, or joy in ministry. I vowed then and there to quit cold turkey and only focus on Him.

As for End Time/Prophetic Ministries, the same thing goes. A steady diet of absorbing every nuance of each little jot and tittle of the news plus biblical references to prophecy may be instructive, but there is other meat in the bible that is important to be absorbed. For example, I don’t usually listen to sermons about prophetic things. The other day I listened to a sermon on The Humble Gospel. Right now I’m listening to a sermon on the joy Paul had in the Thessalonican church.

We need meat, but if you had hamburger every night you would get sick of it! A prophetic ministry is there to offer you enough meat so you understand the prophesies, and that you understand the times, SO THAT you allow the Spirit to then increase your urgency and fervor for Living for Him, knowing He may come back any second and the next second you will be facing Him.

Anonymous on my previous blog entry regarding wolves and gratitude made a great comment. The comment was actually the catalyst for this blog entry. That person had said, “I think I might take a step away from discernment blogs because they just make me angry. The latest thing I saw was a band at Perry Noble’s church singing AC/DC’s highway to hell on Easter Sunday!!!! It’s such an obvious move from the kingdom of evil and I was just blown away at how satan’s tares have infiltrated the church…it’s all getting too much. I think I know enough now to focus on praying for those that are deceiving and those that are getting deceived. I’ve also been studying bible prophecy and the headlines a wee too much for awhile now. It’s all SO interesting but I sometimes do it instead of spending time with God. I hope that’s ok to admit on here LOL…”

It is!

Feel free to come and go, to learn biblical standards and discernment and then go your way being salt and light. It actually makes me proud of Anonymous to read “I think I know enough now to focus on praying for those that are deceiving and those that are getting deceived.” Yes! That is how it should work. The information on Discernment blogs and Prophecy blogs should not be information in and of itself but only be a launching point to go into the world and worship, serve, and praise.

Selah!
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Posted in bible jesus, discernment, end time, prophecy, wolves

Some thoughts about wolves and some thoughts about gratitude

Posted on by elizabethprata

By Elizabeth Prata

From Chris Rosebrough’s Twitter stream, (AKA Pirate Christian) thought provoking enough for me to present them here. Do you have wolf stories to share? Do you have some things you’re grateful about? Please feel free to share! Here’s Chris:

“If the tweet your pastor sent on Friday is longer than the Bible passage he preached about on Sunday…#HeMightBeAWolf.”

“If your pastor is “allergic” to words such as sin, blood, redemption, penal substitution, wrath, hell &  propitiation …. #HeMightBeAWolf”

“If your pastor spends the summer preaching on the latest blockbuster movies rather than preaching God’s Word…. #HeMightBeAWolf.”

“Discernment Fact: Wolves travel in packs. When a pastor invites a heretic to “preach” to his flock, chances are the pastor is also a wolf.”

“Lord I thank you for ordinary office workers who commute to work everyday & toil in the corporate world.”

“Lord I thank you for ordinary moms & dads who are emptying themselves and raising the next generation.”

“Lord I thank you for the humble men who work the trash trucks in my neighborhood and keep my city clean.”

“LORD I thank you for the daily grind, for the mundane & the same old routine. You are glorified in the ordinary.”

Back to me now. I am grateful for pastors who stand on the Word. I listen to many excellent expository preachers. I listen to my own preacher every week and I’m grateful that there are still pastors in these dangerously apostate times who still preach by the Spirit like he does. Please take a moment to thank your pastor and your elders and deacons and ministry leaders and teachers for what they do.

Posted in beth moore, bible, bible jesus, discernment, heresy, the shack

Discernment lesson: The Shack and Beth Moore’s treatment of Paul. Part 1

Posted on by elizabethprata

Writers live with words. We are immersed in them, basking in their variety and understanding their power. I have been a journalist, so I know this intimately. A reporter chooses words consciously because we are limited to short article lengths. We must be precise, knowing that each word must convey a certain meaning in a short amount of space. I’ve been a grant writer, and have been even more restricted to limiting the number of words we are allowed to use. I know that each word counts and is consciously placed on the technical document to convey a certain thought. I’ve been an academic researcher, overlaying words to express what the numbers are saying. When I read a book I know that the author has chosen each word, and in some cases likely has fought with an editor over them.

Therefore when I read a book like William P. Young’s “The Shack” or Beth Moore’s “To Live Is Christ: a Study of Paul’s Life and Ministry,” I know that each word is on the page consciously and for an author-chosen reason. I also know that most readers absorb information unconsciously. The most dangerous heresies come from books, in my opinion, because a speaker could possibly be forgiven for misspeaking (once or twice). An author cannot. Writing takes time, and as noted above, each word is chosen purposely.

Most people read books without thinking of the words, but they are absorbed into the mind and certain emotions the author wanted to evoke will be created in the reader’s heart. So please take note carefully when I say that discerning either Christian novels such as The Shack, or biblical non-fiction theological books as the ones Beth Moore writes have an intent. They are sharing a point of view in which the author desires to present a point and often that point is made without you even noticing it. Let’s take a look at exactly what I mean when I say words count and they shade meaning.

I wrote a few years ago in a blog entry on The Quiet Life that “The Shack is a devilish Deception. I’d said about The Shack,  “A concern is also in the sly ways the book chips away at solid biblical principles with craftily written statements such as, “the dusty old King James Bible” or church attendance is “religious conditioning” or that the term “Christian” is “outdated”, as uttered by in the book by the character “Jesus”, saying,  “Who said anything about being a Christian? I am not a Christian.” People may not even be consciously aware of having read negative intent against the bible or Jesus but they are influenced by them anyway.”

Pastor Walter Henegar at the blog byFaith wrote of the sly craftiness of Young’s choice of words in The Shack, and their cumulative effect: “[D]isdain is conveyed early on: “God’s voice had been reduced to paper. … Nobody wanted God in a box, just in a book. Especially an expensive one bound in gilt edges, or was that guilt edges?” (p. 65-67). … More significant, when Mack [the main character] mentions biblical events or concepts (often in gross caricature), “God” promptly brushes them off and glibly explains how it really is. Unlike the biblical Jesus, who constantly quoted the Old Testament and spent many post-resurrection hours “opening their minds to understand the scriptures,” The Shack’s Papa, Jesus, and Sarayu turn Mack’s attention away from Scripture, coaxing him to trust instead their simplistic lessons set in idyllic, Thomas Kinkade-like scenes and delivered in the familiar therapeutic language of our age. … The result? To the extent that you trust The Shack, you will distrust your Bible—including huge chunks of the Old Testament and at least half of the red letters. Few errors are more corrosive to vigorous Christian faith. Some will plead that there is enough meat for careful readers to spit out the bones, but sadly, this yeast leavens the whole loaf.”

Mr Henegar makes a good point about the leaven. A leavening agent is used in recipes where the desired outcome lightens and softens the entire batch. Yeast is a common leavening agent. The dough rises upon foaming bubbles as carbon dioxide is released, making air pockets. However, since leaven is an ingredient, it is mixed thoroughly in the batch, and no part of the batch is left untouched by it. If the leaven is bad, the whole loaf will be spoiled.

That is a good metaphor for bad doctrine. No part of the church will be left untouched by heresy coming from the pulpit. No part of the mind will be left untouched by a false doctrine when reading it in a book. Such use of sly language is highly corrosive. Avoid The Shack. And when reading any book that alleges affiliation with Christianity, be mindful of the words the author chooses. Young says the bible is dusty, old, and outdated. I say the bible is fresh, living, and inspired. The difference in the words we choose reveals a point of view. Don’t absorb Young’s.

To those who dismiss any criticism of The Shack because it is ‘just’ a novel, Mr Henegar explains, “Of course, not every detail is worth dissecting; a novel is not systematic theology. Yet it’s clearly more than just fiction. Mack’s conversations with Papa, Jesus, and Sarayu make up the bulk of the book, with his questions serving as little more than prompts for their extended divine speeches. Though never citing Scripture directly, the characters make enough allusions to biblical content to imply fidelity to orthodox Christianity.”

Of course if Young has written, “Don’t believe the bible because it is old and outdated” you would spot the heresy easily. The craftiest heresy doesn’t announce itself. It lays lurking in the negative words authors use to describe holy things.

I feel so strongly that The Shack contains crafty heresy, that not only did I write about it on my secular blog, but also on this blog, The End Time. Four times in all.

Burning Down The Shack

Why Christians Should Not Read The Shack

The Shack is a Doctrine of Demons

In the next blog entry coming up momentarily, let’s take a look at a book that is not a Christian novel but a biblical exploration of the life of Paul from Christian speaker Beth Moore. We’ll look at how Mrs Moore uses words to shape your perspective of Paul away from the biblical presentation of his character and toward her own skewed and emotional point of view of the man.
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Posted in beth moore, bible jesus, bible teaching, discernment

Troubled by Beth Moore’s teaching: Part 7, Conclusion

Posted on by elizabethprata

By Elizabeth Prata

I’ve spent a good deal of blog time writing the last day or so about the errors in Beth Moore’s teachings. I hope that my careful analysis and examples using scripture showed you not only where Beth Moore’s teaching is in need of strengthening, but that it also provided enough of a lesson for how to be discerning of any teacher who teaches the Bible. We all long for good teachers of the Word. We all need strengthening in these evil days, and the Word is truly the only good strengthening there is. We can trust it. We read and study on our own, but who isn’t refreshed by a good teaching among brethren once in a while? Certainly I am. But trusting today’s Bible teachers is another matter entirely.

I’m wary of women teachers. There are good ones, but there are also bad ones. Women have a tendency to teach the Word from emotion and personal experience. Why not? That is how most women relate to the world. But with the Word, it is not the natural way to teach its truths.

I believe the Lord did a good thing putting the brakes on female teachers of the Word. I’m not saying that there should never be women teachers. The Bible shows us that there were women contending alongside Paul. (Phil 4:3). Priscilla was noted along with her husband as a teacher of the Word. (Acts 18:26). Phoebe is noted as an outstanding servant at the church (Romans 16:1) and in Acts 21:8 Philip’s four unmarried daughters are mentioned as prophets. All these women are speaking the Lord’s Truth in public or to the public in some way.

But there is also mentioned a father, apostle, or husband working closely with the woman. I think this is good and wise. Now, before I get thousands of emails calling me a betrayer of my gender, I’m just reflecting back to you from scripture the way God set it up. I think in the cases where women are teachers it takes a special attention to ensure the Word is handled properly because of the tendency to teach emotionally and relationally. I am reminded of the warning we received in 2 Timothy 3:6, “They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires…”. What is spoken of in the verse just prior is to watch out for people who “having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.”

Barnes Notes explains that “For of this sort are they which creep into houses – Who go slyly and insidiously into families. They are not open and manly in endeavoring to propagate their views, but they endeavor by their address to ingratiate themselves first with weak women, and through them to influence men; compare Titus 1:11. … And lead captive silly women – One of the tricks always played by the advocates of error, and one of the ways by which they seek to promote their purposes. Satan began his work of temptation with Eve rather than with Adam, and the advocates of error usually follow his example. There are always weak-minded women enough in any community to give an opportunity of practicing these arts, and often the aims of the impostor and deceiver can be best secured by appealing to them. Such women are easily flattered; they are charmed by the graceful manners of religious instructors; they lend a willing ear to anything that has the appearance of religion, and their hearts are open to anything that promises to advance the welfare of the world. At the same time, they are just such persons as the propagators of error can rely upon. They have leisure; they have wealth; they are busy; they move about in society, and by their activity they obtain an influence to which they are by no means entitled by their piety or talents. There are, indeed, very many women in the world who cannot be so easily led away as men; but it cannot be denied also that there are those who are just adapted to the purposes of such as seek to spread plausible error.”

The verse says that some women are easy prey to seducers, plain and simple, and we see the model of that in Genesis 3:1. So who are the good women teachers? Well, I don’t know. But in one of the blog entries I referred to The Watchman’s Bagpipes, a discernment and apologetics blog run by Glenn E. Chatfield. He had done a point by point look at the statements Beth Moore has made and did so with gentleness but truth.

Glenn E. Chatfield at The Watchman’s Bagpipes said, “While maybe not noticed in her books, Beth Moore’s arrogant and obnoxious behavior on her DVDs are something Christians should not emulate or even condone. Additionally, her teachings are rife with error and pop-psychology. Although Beth Moore indeed has some excellent teachings, her error is of the nature that she should be warned against and not given a pass because of her popularity. Women have much better role models in Kay Arthur, Joni Eareckson Tada, Jill Briscoe, Martha Peace and others.”

I have not personally partaken of any of the teachings of any of these women except for Kay Arthur, and in Kay I found no error. Kay teaches how to study the Bible, precept by precept, and so her studies do a double duty. You learn the Word and you learn HOW to study the Word. But if you decide to investigate any of these women teachings yourself, then I feel if you have read all the blog entries on Beth Moore, have studied what the Bible has to say about wisdom and discernment, and prayed, then you have a good grounding in how to detect solidity in biblical teaching, if it is there, and how to detect if it is not.

Philip Way wrote a good series on “Learn to Discern“. Tim Challies also wrote a good book, “The Discipline of Spiritual Discernment.” Because ultimately, sisters, it is not about Beth Moore. It is about us in our own walk and growth. Are we maturing? Do we rely on the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth? Have we been practicing discernment? Can we detect whether we ourselves are a silly woman, held captive by sin, or are a sensible pious woman of Proverbs 31?

Pray much and rely on our Helper. In John 14:26 Jesus told the Apostles, “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.” And we know where reliance on Him and His Helper have led us since that time…to a world where the truth has blanketed it, leading us out of sin and darkness. To the only faith where we can know the truth, and know The Truth, personally. Rely on Him always and let Him lead you into good discernment.

Entries in this series

Troubled by Beth Moore’s teaching: Part 1, Introduction and Casualness
Beth Moore plays up the southern belle, delicate flower, Texas big hair, ultra-feminine mystique…something that I as a Yankee find mystifying. It’s a cultural thing, I know. But just because it is a women’s ministry doesn’t mean all women will understand the southern belle, delicate flower, Texas big hair persona or even understand what she’s talking about half the time. However, if the Bible is center stage, it will transcend cultural differences, wouldn’t it? Let’s see.

Troubled by Beth Moore Teaching, Part 2: Un-dignified teaching
In which I look at one of the things that happens when women teach (tag-end questions and affirmation seeking), the undignified delivery of her lessons, and the problems with a rapid-fire teaching.

Troubled by Beth Moore’s Teaching, Part 3: Contemplative Prayer
In which I explain what Contemplative Prayer is, why it is bad, and Beth Moore’s participation in it.

Troubled by Beth Moore Teaching, Part 4: Legalism
In which I define legalism, and show three examples of Moore’s tendency toward it.

Troubled by Beth Moore’s Teaching, Part 5: Personal Revelation
Beth Moore claims direct revelation from God. Is this biblical?

Troubled by Beth Moore’s Teaching, Part 6: Eisegesis, Pop Psychology, & Bad Bible Interpretations
Does she interpret the Bible that badly?

Troubled By Beth Moore’s Teaching, Part 7: Conclusion
It is not about Beth Moore-it is about our own proper discernment. Recommendations for discernment studies and also good women teachers