Search Results for: Beth Moore

All Beth Moore critiques here in one place (Newest)

This blog essay is a repository for links to all Beth Moore critiques I have written over the years; and it is a listing of all external Beth Moore critiques I could find that are grace-filled and credible. I think it’s helpful to have them all in one place.

This is a list of most blogs I have written about Moore, and below that, a list of links of critiques women wrote about Moore, and below that, a list of men who have critiqued Moore. Moore is bad for your heart, bad for your mind, and bad for your faith. The bible advises us to “avoid such people”.

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Beth Moore Critiques
Licensed for reuse

Critiques by Elizabeth Prata, writer of this blog:

Joyce Meyer’s “I am not a sinner” aside, the more subtle a false teacher, the less likely it will be that one can find just one ‘smoking gun’ to point to in proving falsity. Therefore, this link is as close as it gets to just one smoking gun.

2013: Examining Beth Moore’s statement: the ‘Bride is paralyzed by unbelief 


Updated essays by EPrata critiquing Moore

2017: Lifestyles of the mega-rich pastors with estates and private jets: You’ll be shocked to see who is among them (OK it’s Beth Moore)

2017: Was this devoted Catholic man swept to heaven upon his death as the obituary states?

2017: Spot the self-refutation, Moore & Mysticism

2017: Beth Moore calling down fire

2016: Deconstructing Moore’s most popular story

2015: Beth Moore’s Strangely Disappearing Tweet: A Discernment Lesson

I wrote this series in 2011 after having attended a two day Living Proof Conference.
Beth Moore: Reactions to Living Proof teaching
Reactions Part 1
Reactions Part 2
Reactions Part3a
Reaction Part3b
Reactions Part 4

Investigating Moore’s teachings led me to research further. This series was the result:
Troubled by Beth Moore’s teaching:
Beth Moore Part 1: Introduction, and Casualness
Beth Moore Part 2: Undignified Teaching
Beth Moore Part 3: Contemplative Prayer
Beth Moore Part 4: Legalism
Beth Moore Part 5: Personal Revelation
Beth Moore Part 6: Eisegesis, Pop Psychology, and Bad Bible Interpretations
Beth Moore Part 7: Conclusion

When I read that Beth Moore said she had received the book directly from God as if a force had taken control of her, it reminded me of previous research I’d done years ago into automatic writing. This series was the result.

Examples of Channeling Christians, like Beth Moore
Part 1: Introduction
Part 2: How Walsch, Young, and Moore channeled their books
Part 3: How Walsch, Young, & Moore channeled their books
Conclusion: Why Walsch, Young and Moore channeled their books

Beth Moore’s role as a feminist and redefining biblical womanhood for the next generations (Rev 2:20 again)

Secret Christian feminists
How the Christian secret feminists are reforming the definition of biblical womanhood. Part 1 
How the Christian secret feminists are reforming the definition of biblical womanhood. Part 2
How the Christian secret feminists are reforming the definition of biblical womanhood. Part 3

Beth Moore led a “commissioning” for 11,000 women (and men) at Unwrap the Bible conference

Beth Moore defenders said I was being too picky in making charges against the way Moore teaches, casual speaking of God being one of them. But here is an essay showing that such casual speech is actually a breaking of the Third Commandment not to take His name in vain.
The Third Commandment: ways to take God’s name in vain you might not have thought of

Taking Beth Moore to task for claiming to have been with Jesus in another dimension and taught new things
Beth Moore says God lifted her into another dimension & showed her the church through Jesus’ eyes

A discernment lesson on how Mrs Moore twists scripture and comparing her exposition to credible teachers’ work
Discernment lesson: The Shack and Beth Moore’s treatment of Paul. Part 2

Really, if Revelation 2:20 doesn’t speak of Beth Moore’s type of prophesying, then I dunno what does.
Beth Moore: a type of false prophetess of the church at Thyatira? 

Examining how Luke 6 and the curse of popularity is one huge indicator of a false teacher
Discernment lesson: the curse of popularity, Beth Moore, and Billy Graham

Book Review: “Things Pondered,” Beth Moore’s story of adopting a boy and giving him back

Beth Moore’s Heretic Hunting Article and its Fallout

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Further Reading, Critiques by Various Women:

2017: Amy Spreeman and Michelle Lesley: Beth Moore’s labyrinth descent into falsehood

Erin Benziger (Do Not Be Surprised) March 2014, Beth Moore Prophesies a Coming ‘Outpouring,’ Warns of ‘Scoffers’

Erin Benziger (Do Not Be Surprised) Jan. 2014 “Why Beth Moore and Not Me? The Danger of Claiming to Receive Direct Revelation

1. Sharon Lareau of Chapter 3 Ministries, Beth Moore Simulcast Review Part One: General Observations, 2014

2. Sharon Lareau of Chapter 3 Ministries, Beth Moore Simulcast Review Part Two: Bible Interpretation Issues, 2014

3. Sharon Lareau of Chapter 3 Ministries, Beth Moore Simulcast Review Part Three: Personal Revelation 2014

1. Sharon Lareau of Chapter 3 Ministries, Evaluating Beth Moore’s Upcoming Live Simulcast, 2015 (How to pay attention to the red flags the Spirit raises in us, a good discernment lesson in prep for evaluating Moore’s simulcast)

2. Sharon Lareau of Chapter 3 Ministries, Class on Discernment: Living Proof Live Simulcast, 2015

3. Sharon Lareau of Chapter 3 Ministries, 2015 Living Proof Live Simulcast Review Part One

Pam Terrell: Breaking Up With Beth Moore

Book Review by Discerning Reader: Get out of That Pit (the reviewer does not recommend the book)

Sunny Shell: What Do Ann Voskamp, Beth Moore and Sarah Young Have In Common?

Adriane Heins, she is a Lutheran I believe. In this essay she also mentions Joyce Meyer. I appreciated this a lot: “Beth and Joyce want you to feel your theology; Christ assures you of it.” (Cached version)
Friends Don’t let Friends Read Beth Moore

The Upward Call’s Critique of Beth Moore’s “The Patriarchs”

Beth Moore: “Biblicism, Spiritual Warfare, Mysticism and Pop Psychology”

Chapter by Chapter critique of Moore’s book “So long, Insecurity”

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Further reading, Critiques By Men:

2017: Pastor Gabe Hughes- Breaking Down Beth Moore’s Comment at Passion 2017

2017: Justin Peters comments on a very bad tweet Moore published that was full or error and just plain strange I call “The Noah Instinct“. It caused a minor uproar, so Moore simply deleted it. But screen shots abound.

2017: Delivered By Grace (Josh Buice), Why Your Pastor should say “No More to Beth Moore”

2017: 3354. This Week in Pop-American Christianity: Beth Moore’s Teaching on Baptism – Pr. Chris Rosebrough, 12/1/17
Pastor Chris Rosebrough is interviewed and goes line by line through Moore’s recent teaching on Baptism and shows why it’s bad. Podcast.

How do I respond to people who refuse to admit that those who supposedly receive divine revelation are dangerous even though they don’t teach outright heresy?

Can you talk about the dangers of popular teachers who are not heretical but say that God talks to them? I am thinking specifically of Beth Moore. What are we to do with people who refuse to see the danger and insist such teachers are OK?

Believers must always listen carefully when any teacher or preacher speaks about the Bible and theology. They must share the nobility of the Berean saints whom Luke commended for double checking Paul’s teaching according to Scripture (cf. Acts 17:1–11). While Beth Moore teaches with accuracy on some points, she also holds positions and teaches doctrines that are both incorrect and dangerous.

Beth Moore promotes contemplative prayer, a mystical practice not found in Scripture which includes elements of eastern mysticism. She chooses not to draw firm doctrinal lines on her website while implying the Roman Catholic Church is a Christian denomination alongside the Methodist, Baptist, and other denominations. Beth also claims that she has received visions from God and sometimes receives revelation from Him in her heart. From these examples we must conclude that the lack of biblical and theological depth in Beth Moore’s teaching renders her a dubious and dangerous source of Bible teaching.

From Rev. Matt Slick, Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry: A critique of Beth Moore’s teaching here.

Rev. Chris Hull: Lutheran pastor on Beth Moore: “She’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing trying to destroy my flock”

Beth Moore Confronts Young Pastor’s Wife for Criticizing Her Direct, Divine Revelation

Beth Moore’s followers don’t understand the Gospel, by Jeff Maples

From a man named Dale Wilson at the blog The King’s Dale: Beth Moore – False Teacher

Pastor Mike Abendroth, 90-second video: Where is Beth Moore’s Husband?
Pastor Mike Abendroth, sermon clip: Beth Moore-a or Sola Scriptura?
Pastor Mike Abendroth 22 minute radio show, answering emails about Beth Moore

Justin Peters: Spiritual Shipwreck of the Word Faith Movement (not solely devoted to critiquing Moore but she is part of the overall sermon lesson)

Chris Rosebrough: 90-min., Line-by-line audio critique of Moore’s handling of a lesson on Hebrews 10:35-36, Beth Moore’s Dangerous Bible Twisting

I do not agree with a lot of what Mr Wade Burleson has to say. But I include this link because by his own admission he is a fan of Moore and considers her an asset to the Body of Christ, and even he is scratching his head at how Moore treated James 4:10-11 in the study Mercy Triumphs. I especially appreciated his critique of Moore’s penchant for making promises about God’s intentions, as if she knows at any given moment what God will do in this or that situation, something I mentioned in the Commissioning essay above.
“God Will Kick Your Tail” – A Critique of Beth Moore’s Teaching on James 4:10-11 from Mercy Triumphs

Beth Moore Confronts Pastors Wife for Criticizing her Direct Revelation

From Sharper Iron, it is a very good critique. Highly recommended. Beth Moore: Her John Piper Connection and Her Very Bad Doctrine

Strange Fire Q&A: Beth Moore
This short Q&A addresses Moore’s claim of extra-biblical revelation

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Of Interest:
Grace To You sermon series:
How to Talk to a Heretic

Biblical stance on why Beth Moore has always been false (or any false teacher) and it didn’t just come on suddenly

Beth Moore calling down fire

fire fall down

This article from Charisma Magazine, published August 2, 2017, was something of an amazement to me. I should not be amazed, but I am. And not in a good way.

Here is an excerpt from J. Lee Grady’s article titled How Beth Moore is Calling Down Pentecostal Fire:

I’ve been in countless Christian meetings over the years, but last week, I witnessed one of the most remarkable spiritual moments of my lifetime.

I was attending a gathering of Pentecostals held at a convention center in Orlando, Florida. When the speaker concluded the sermon, people began to stream to the altar. Many of them—including pastors—lay prostrate on the floor. Many were sobbing uncontrollably. Some people wept and prayed for an hour after the meeting was dismissed.

You may ask, “What’s so remarkable about that?” This meeting, held on July 26, was unique because the speaker was a Southern Baptist—and a woman. Yet her message was so convicting and so saturated in the Holy Spirit that people ran to the stage even though she didn’t even invite people to the altar.

The woman was author and popular women’s speaker Beth Moore, and the occasion was the 28th General Conference of the International Pentecostal Holiness Church. Leaders from the Assemblies of God, the Church of God and Nigeria’s Redeemed Christian Church of God were in attendance, along with thousands of Pentecostals from all over the world.

Moore based her message on Jeremiah 12:5: “If you have run with the footmen, and they have wearied you, then how can you contend with horses?” Without a tinge of self-righteousness or condemnation, Moore lamented the powerless state of the modern church and called us back to the raw authenticity of New Testament faith.

“We are settling for woefully less than what Jesus promised us,” said Moore. “I read my New Testament over and over. I’m not seeing what He promised. I’m unsettled and unsatisfied.”

She added: “I want holy fire!”

I don’t know what is more fascinating—that a Baptist challenged Pentecostals to embrace Pentecostal fire or that a woman who is not supposed to preach to men in her own denomination brought male pastors to their knees in repentance.

I don’t know what is more fascinating, the complete rebelliousness of Moore’s preaching, the dangerous and ignorant plea for God to send down fire, or the flat declaration by Moore that she is unsatisfied and unsettled with a lack of fulfillment in God’s promises.

Let’s look at the Charismatic penchant for wanting fire. We hear about that a lot- teachers, preachers, and lay-people, begging for fire.

In this GotQuestions article we readof the reality of fire from heaven. How many times has God sent fire from heaven? The Bible records six times when He sent fire from heaven.

1. God allowed satan to send fire from heaven to destroy Job’s flocks.
2. God sent fire in the form of burning sulfur to Sodom & Gomorrah
3.  God also used fire from heaven to judge the soldiers sent by the wicked king Ahaziah to arrest Elijah
4. & 5. Twice, fire descended from heaven to consume a group of fifty soldiers sent on the king’s business (2 Kings 1:10, 12).
6.  God sent fire from above in order to consume a sacrifice

Fire from heaven is predicted for the future as well. In the end-time Tribulation, the false prophet will cause fire to come down from heaven as a counterfeit miracle designed to deceive people into worshiping the Antichrist (Revelation 13:13).

And, at the end of the millennium, God will instantly destroy the armies of Gog and Magog with fire from heaven (Revelation 20:9).

So, do we really want fire to fall down from heaven? Really? Why do these false teachers constantly ask for fire from heaven? Do they think it makes them look pious? It only reveals their biblical ignorance.

They know not what they ask. Their ends will be as they deserve. They twist the Bible they deceive the people, they scratch itching ears, and they heap up followers. Sadly, instead of glory and peace, they will receive fire. They will get the fire they asked for.

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. … Then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.
(2 Peter 2:1-3; 9-10).

say to those who prophesy from their own hearts: ‘Hear the word of the Lord!’ 3 Thus says the Lord God, Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing! (Ezekiel 13:2b-3).

And you, son of man, set your face against the daughters of your people, who prophesy out of their own hearts. (Ezekiel 13:17).

Lord, haste the day when lying diviners and deceitful prophetesses will be no more.

 

Discernment Lesson: Comparing a Beth Moore & Martyn Lloyd Jones teaching on on the same verse

I recently did a discernment lesson on the most popular story Beth Moore tells, The Hairbrush Story. Chris Rosebrough has dismantled it sentence by sentence, and I pointed readers to that link, and then offered some of my own insights.

Because writing a discernment lesson about a false teacher takes so much time, which means I have to spend a lot of time wallowing in her muck, it necessitates a spiritual wash afterwards. I got curious about Moore’s teaching on Ephesians 3:19, which The Hairbrush Story was allegedly about. She focused on the part of the verse which promises the full measure of God (NIV), or the fullness of God (ESV).

and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. (Ephesians 3:19)

I love Martyn Lloyd Jones’ sermons, especially on Ephesians, which I am going through anyway. I decided to listen to his treatment of the verse, the same verse, the one and only verse, and see what I could learn. After hearing Moore, I really did want to know more about the full measure of Christ it is a majestic topic. The phrase kept rolling around in my head. So I headed over to the Martyn Lloyd Jones (MLJ) Trust Sermons and listened so my mind could be cleansed from the mud and I could learn about Jesus from a credible preacher. I found the MLJ sermon All the Fullness of God

As I was pondering these things, a tweet came up from my twitter friend Landon Chapman at Entreating Favor website and Fire Away! podcast. Here it is:

This is very, very wise. I take his advice to heart.

I have never immediately compared a false teacher’s lesson on a verse to a credible teacher’s treatment of it. Of course I always compare the false teacher’s lesson to the Bible. Also, it’s not often I can find a false teacher having focused solely on one verse for the point of her lesson and then find a preacher who also preached on that exact sole verse. Comparing would be easy. Not uncomplicated or fast, but easy as in apples to apples. The Moore teaching was still fresh in my mind, as I listened to Jones’. I listened to MLJ’s sermon three times in fact.

I found that Beth Moore and Martyn Lloyd Jones, having taught the same single verse, came to exactly opposite conclusions. Totally at odds with each other. One says yes, the other no. One says black, the other says white. One says up, the other down. By the picture below, you can easily see which Bible teacher’s teaching I found biblical.

Lloyd Jones’ well known nickname; A nickname I dub Moore

Moore taught that the full measure of Christ in us believers is something we do not currently possess.
Jones taught that the fullness of Christ is something we currently do possess.

Moore taught that we could possess it IF we do certain things.
Jones taught that the fullness is something every believer already has as a gift.

Moore taught that the reason we want the full measure of Christ is so we can get blessing and power.
Jones categorically rejects this.

Moore taught that the fullness was a feeling.
Jones taught that the fullness was a doctrine.

Moore taught that we want the full measure of Christ so we can get something, power, love, blessing.
Jones taught that having the fullness of Christ is something we aspire to because Christ is the prize.

They even have a different summation point-

Beth Moore teaching the point of lesson: “I’ve got to know somebody totally loves me.”
Lloyd Jones says the point of the verse is: “It is the highest doctrine of all.”

I won’t go on, you can see it on this chart I made. I included the links from which I delved into each lesson, and the minute at which I heard each teaching so if you care to check it out yourself, you can. Below the chart are the two illustrations each teacher gave. Moore’s was with the measuring cup and Jones’s was about a bottle. They come to opposite conclusions. Moore believes the fullness has a quantity to it and Jones says the full measure is about the quality of it.

Note: MLJ preached the Ephesians series between 1957 and 1980. Moore’s hairbrush story was re-published on LifeToday in 2012 and that is where I reviewed it, though she had delivered it at least as early as 2011 and maybe a year or two earlier than that. The comments in the chart are direct quotes.

The illustration: Moore’s measuring cup and liquid.

With this visual prop, Moore was teaching that we do not possess the full measure. However if we do certain things in our own power and then ask for the fullness, Christ will give it AND “the power that comes with it”. In Moore’s interpretation, we are all 16 oz measuring cups and some of us have 2 ounces of the fullness and others of us have 4 ounces and others get to be filled up completely. A total filling is not something that will happen on this side of eternity anyway.

Lloyd-Jones teaches the opposite. He focuses on ton the vessel but on the quality of the filling. He said we already possess the fullness of Christ in us when we’re saved. He said the power of God (omnipotence) is an attribute of God that is NON-communicable. MLJ also said the fullness is not a quantity, but a quality. Why?

because the amount varies. It varies in the same man from time to time. It varies from one of us to the other, and yet we all can have the fullness.

Here is an illustration to show how you can possess the fullness and yet have more of it. Take a bottle and put it into the sea. You can fill it. Then you can say that bottle is full of the sea. Then you can take a great tank and do the same thing. They both have a fullness but they haven’t the same amount. And the sea is always the sea. The little bottle full of sea has just the same characteristics of the sea in fullness as the tank has.

The drastic difference between the two teachings comes from their view of Jesus and of self. Jones’ eyes are on Christ, Moore’s is on herself. With her, the fullness is something we get, power comes with it, we do things with this power, we get blessing, we receive affirmation of love, and we can have more of it. We, we, we. Her eyes are on self.

Jones shows us where our eyes should be. Not on the bottle, not on the amount that is IN the bottle, not on the tank, not on anything we might think we get, but on the SEA. It is what is IN us that matters. It’s all about Christ in us, His righteousness, His fullness. It has nothing to do with our works, our deeds, our emptying, our effectiveness, our requests, or anything whatsoever to do with us. He bestows His fullness of Himself to us on salvation. It is all about Christ.

For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen. (Ephesians 3:14-21)

[By Elizabeth Prata]

Beth Moore bible twisting now includes “binding prayers”

I appreciated my friend Seth Dunn’s warning about Beth Moore. He wrote on Facebook,

 

Here is what Moore wrote on Twitter, a bit larger,

Moore is referring to the following verses,

Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:18–20)

These are verses which are frequently abused by the charismatic crowd, of which Moore is part. Benny Hinn and Joyce Meyer also frequently refer to binding and loosing in the same vein as Moore did on Twitter, this is noted in the below linked essay. Moore’s theology is often wrong on many counts, and incorrectly referring to binding/loosing is another example. The sad part is the number of “likes” her references have already garnered. Hence, the warning from Mr Dunn. Women, be wary of Beth Moore. She is a false teacher.

These verses from Matthew 18 about binding and loosing are so frequently abused that Dr John MacArthur included them in a blog series titled appropriately “Frequently Abused Verses Can Believers Manipulate the Power and Presence of Christ?” Of binding and loosing, we see from this excerpt from the blog’s author Cameron Buettel,

As with previous posts in this series, the first thing we should check is the context of our passage. What do the surrounding verses tell us about the meaning of our text? In this case, the preceding verses are likely just as familiar as the passage in question:

If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. (Matthew 18:15–17).

Just a simple reading of the text makes it clear that the focus is not spiritual warfare, unity in marriage, or empowering your prayer meetings. Instead, verses 15–17 speak exclusively about church discipline.

Therefore, all of Christ’s instructions about binding and loosing, unity, and the promise of His presence come in the context of church discipline. In other words, Matthew 18:18–20 means that when church leaders gather together to deal with unrepentant sinners, they have heavenly backing.

Please read the rest of the essay for an excellent explanation of exactly what binding and loosing are about.

And, it doesn’t take much thought to see that the manner in which Moore used the binding prayer is faulty. As she said in her tweet, If she “often” has to deal with spine pain, one must ask why didn’t her binding prayer against her pain “work”? The Word/Faith crowd will tell you that it’s because you do not possess enough faith. From there, the downward spiral of incorrect interpretations continue.

Think about it, Paul didn’t pray “binding prayers” against his own continuing pain from the thorn in his side (AKA messenger from satan). He instead prayed to Jesus to remove it. (2 Corinthians 12:5-10). Timothy didn’t pray “binding prayers” to remove his nausea and frequent illnesses. (1 Timothy 5:23). As a matter of fact he was told by Paul to stop drinking only water (bacteria laden) and to take wine (antiseptic). Binding prayers are not mentioned in either remedy. Just those two quick examples reveal an absence of binding prayers from the actual Apostles, and another Jenga slab comes out of the wobbly charismatic doctrinal tower.

At root, what people who speak prayers to bind their pain are really believing is that they have power over demons, and that they have power to manipulate God, (i.e ‘if I have enough faith then God HAS to perform this for me’).

Pretty “audacious” if you ask me.

In which Beth Moore says something unbiblical. Again

Do you ladies see the internal inconsistency in this? You “can’t catch the Spirit & make stay Him put” but you CAN catch Him & control Him. On the surface, false teachers’ doctrine always sounds Christian-y, but upon digging only slightly deeper, it falls apart. That’s because it’s cotton candy, all clouds and no water. (Jude 1:12).

Ladies, dig deeper. Don’t accept what teachers say at face value. Examine the Scriptures to see if these things are so. (Acts 17:11). In this particular case, John 3:8 would apply here-

“The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

The Bible Knowledge Commentary says of John 3:8,

“This verse contains a wordplay which cannot be adequately expressed in English. The Greek word pneuma means both wind and Spirit. The work of the Spirit (pneuma) is invisible and mysterious like the blowing of the wind (pneuma). Man controls neither.”

What is really sad to me is how many people retweeted it and ‘liked’ it within just a couple of hours of Moore having published the tweet. The bane of Twitter. Correct theology takes time and care to explain, exceeding Twitter’s 140 characters. But wrong theology can fit neatly into a 140 character limit, and they propagate like the weeds they are.

Beth Moore launching a new TV program on TBN (updated)

Michelle Lesley posted a note that Beth Moore is launching a weekly television program on TBN next week. She wrote:

One of the behaviors that illustrate bad fruit and indicate a teacher’s falseness is who a person chooses to associate with. I have written in the past about Moore’s association with the Osteens, both Joel and Victoria, and her manning the pulpit at Lakewood Church. I’ve also written about Moore’s donations to Lakewood “for ministry support” to the tune of over $40,000.  Moore has more recently partnered with Joyce Meyer, a blasphemously heretical teacher, on Meyer’s TV program. Moore associates with Christine Caine and Roma Downey as well, and the list could go on. Far from being the Southern Baptist Convention’s conservative and excellently exegetical darling, Moore is a false teacher leading millions of women astray every day.

The Bible warns us about false teachers. The moral and doctrinal purity of the church is something Jesus takes extremely seriously. To show the seriousness, He killed Ananias and Sapphira on the spot in Acts 5 for lying to the Spirit. To continue to illustrate how serious He is about the moral and doctrinal purity of the church, the Spirit inspired almost every NT writer to repeat the warnings, and caused many them to write many commands on what to do when encountering such doctrines and the people who bring them. Here are just two:

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, (2 John 1:10)

I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. (Romans 16:17)

To stay away doesn’t mean not to be polite if passing in the hall, or if coincidentally attending the same secular event not to acknowledge their presence. It bespeaks of conscious choices to partner with heretics in religious pursuits. It means to deliberately choose to spend time with false teachers in Christian endeavors. Can two walk together except they be agreed? Amos 3:3 asks. Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers 2 Corinthians 6:14 warns, of fellowshipping with people who do not believe as we do.

So when we see that Moore has chosen to partner with such heretics, it speaks volumes. Here is the TBN lineup on Wednesdays:

The people on that list couldn’t be more heretical if they tried. Wolves run in packs. Please, please be warned about Beth Moore. The Lord is lifting the veneer of Christianity from her very quickly now. He is revealing her false behaviors, false words, false teachings, and false associations more and more obviously. However, there are still too many women who either don’t know about her falseness or refuse to believe it.

A little leaven spoils the lump, and Moore possesses a lot of leaven. Beware.

FMI on why Moore is false, please go to my link All Beth Moore Critiques Here in One Place. You’ll find 50 links from me, other women, and men & pastors who have negatively critiqued her teaching by comparing it to scripture. Scroll down.

6 destructive Church Trends; Pastor’s Wife, Get Real; Beth Moore Simulcast review; Death of PM service; and wearable real-looking wings!

6 Destructive Trends Happening in Your Church by Jared C. Wilson is an excellent article. I love lists, bullet points,and outlines, and this one hits all the points. The article is a synopsis of a longer work,from  Mr Wilson’s book–

The Prodigal Church: A Gentle Manifesto against the Status Quo, by Jared C. Wilson. The book blurb reads:

In The Prodigal Church, Jared Wilson challenges church leaders to reconsider their priorities when it comes to how they “do church” and reach people in their communities, arguing that we too often rely on loud music, flashy lights, and skinny jeans to get people in the door. 

Writing with the grace and kindness of a trusted friend, Wilson encourages readers to reexamine the Bible’s teaching, not simply return to a traditional model for tradition’s sake. He then sets forth an alternative to both the attractional and the traditional models: an explicitly biblical approach that is gospel focused, grace based, and fruit oriented.

My favorite one is #4. Closely followed by #5.

————————————————-

This next article was published today by Baptist Press. It is titled,

FIRST-PERSON: Pastor’s wife, be real!

HOBBS, N.M. (BP) — It is the loudest silence, a moment so brief it is imperceptible to the untrained ear — that moment between reality and response when faced with the traditional Sunday greeting of “How are you?”
Inside there is a heart crying out to be known. Yet, as we turn up our smiles, we turn down the volume on the voice of truth. I am fine. I am great. My life is in order.
Pastor’s wife, we are facing an epidemic in our churches. It is the epidemic of being “fine.” Somehow we have bought into the lie that if anyone knew our true humanity and all of its nagging sin nature, we would be ostracized.

I love the church assembly. Some assemblies are more genuine than others, and of course none are perfect. At least if they had been perfect, they shine was off the moment I joined. However, one thing bugs me about church.

As much as we complain that church isn’t a show, we put on a show all the time, in pretending we’re fine. We’re not. How do I know we’re not? We’re sinners, (Romans 3:10) and we live on a world whose ‘god’ is currently the author of evil. (2 Cor 4:4) Of course we’re not fine. Get real.

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Mrs Sharon Lareau has taken much time, prayer, and study to present to us women a Living Proof Live Simulcast Review, Part One. She extensively compares what Beth Moore was teaching at this latest simulcast, to the Bible. I recommend her presentation to you, urgently.

In a companion essay to her review, Mrs Lareau examines the main idea Beth Moore so fervently delivered in the simulcast, the message that all women are lacking and need to hear, which is that we need a big romance with Jesus. Mrs Lareau looks at this teaching in her essay Romance with Jesus: The Bigger Picture. This is also an excellent essay that I recommend to you. Good gravy, just go to Mrs Lareau’s page and bookmark it. You will be glad you did. 🙂

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Another good one from Reformation 21, The Death of the Evening Service

When I was first asked about my “vision” for the church, I made the point that I’d like to see better attendance at the evening service. From some outside the church I received a few silly suggestions, but I resolved to do two things: 

1. Not coerce or manipulate people to come to the evening service.
2. Let the gospel do its work.

So why is retaining the evening service a good idea?

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Now’s your chance to see Alexis Noriega’s beautiful pair of human-sized pneumatic articulating feather wings, which she made for Halloween. She will be posting a tutorial soon for people interested in building their own pair. Pretty cool.

Fly Like an Eagle

Reason #2,543 not to be a Beth Moore follower (or Bill Johnson, Kim Walker Smith, Ken Hagin etc…) Divination!

Phil Johnson

I was listening to Pastor Phil Johnson preach an Old Testament passage this morning. Pr. Johnson is the Executive Director of John MacArthur’s site, Grace to You. I love when Johnson preaches the Old Testament and also the Psalms. He adds quite a bit of context from history, culture and even topography so the listener fully understands the scenes passing through our minds so as to picture it with detail.

The passage this morning was an overview of 2 Kings 1, “Fire From Heaven.” A short synopsis is that King Ahaziah is on the throne of Judah. Ahaziah is a descendant of King Ahab, and the LORD had already spoken that eventually, no descendant of Ahab’s would live. He would wipe them all out. No mean feat, as Johnson said, Ahab had 70 sons.

There was a battle, and Ahaziah stayed behind in his castle. His castle was not so safe after all, for Ahaziah fell through the lattice from a high place, incurring critical injuries. Though God is still God is Israel, and Elijah is still prophesying, Ahaziah’s apostasy, or worse, ignorance of the One True God, was so deep that “he sent messengers, telling them, ‘Go, inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron, whether I shall recover from this sickness.'”

Therein lay the crux of the matter.

First, let’s see the LORD’S response:

Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria, and say to them, ‘Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are going to inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron? Now therefore thus says the LORD, You shall not come down from the bed to which you have gone up, but you shall surely die.‘” (2 Kings 1:3-4)

Ahaziah was not so ill that the LORD could not have healed him if He chose, prolonging his life until His prophecy would be fulfilled at a later time. Alternately, Ahaziah could have died instantly upon falling through the lattice.

The reason Ahaziah was going to die at that time was because he sought an oracle from another god.

God is deadly serious about not indulging in oracles, divination, predictions, sorceries, or anything similar. Consulting mediums is the major reason of what cost King Saul his kingship, his dynasty, and his life. (1 Chronicles 10:13–14). Consulting another god is what cost King Ahaziah his life.

EPrata artwork

When you come into the land that the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12).

An abomination. In the Hebrew the word abomination used here also means detestable and loathsome. In that verse, the LORD hates 9 things in particular:

  1. offers child for sacrifice
  2. diviners
  3. tells fortunes
  4. interprets omens
  5. sorcery
  6. charmers
  7. medium (King Saul’s sin, 1 Samuel 28)
  8. necromancer
  9. inquires of the dead

Offering a child in sacrifice refers to the biblical practice of Molech worship where parents would cast their child into the belly of Molech which was an oven, and the child would be burned alive. Parents who did this wanted a better life. Today some have likened Molech-sacrifice to abortion.

Divination is having implied power to learn secret things via various methods such as hydromancy (through water), cast bones, cast arrows, divining rod (Ezekiel 8:17 alludes to) & etc. Hepatoscopy is divining via the liver (of a dead animal), which Ezekiel 21:21 says the King of Babylon engaged in. Today occult practitioners use Tarot Cards, chicken bones, crystals, crystal ball, palm reading, Ouija boards, horoscopes and the like.

The International Bible Dictionary says of divination,

“The word “divination” itself, from deus, “god,” or divus, “pertaining to god,” carries with it the notion that the information obtained came from deity.” Astrology is a kind of divination, via peering into secret things of ‘god’ via the alignment of the stars.

Mediums AKA Fortune tellers AKA witchcraft AKA soothsayers AKA necromancers (Leviticus 19:31) are persons who act as go-betweens from this world to the world of spirits. These occult practitioners claim ability to communicate with the dead or with spirits or  familiars, bringing messages back and forth between the two realms. The ‘spirits of the dead’ are actually demons impersonating Grandma, and thus are lying spirits. In Luke 16:18-31 we are given information that the dead stay in their abode, a great gulf is fixed between Hades and Paradise, and it is alluded to that none escape from either location to return and commune with the living. (The Witch at En-Dor’s conjuring of dead Samuel is a sole exception- to drive home the point that if you do this, you will die.) As an aside, remember the 1960s TV show “Bewitched” Samantha the witch’s mother was named En-dora.

Mark Batterson’s The Circle Maker book is a modern practice of the ancient art of witchcraft. I explored that issue in-depth here. Contemplative prayer is another re-packaged mystical-occult practice.

Charmers, #6,is an interesting occult practice. Psalm 58:5 Jeremiah 8:17; Ecclesiastes 10:11 and mention them. Charmers are occult practitioners who are also known as are whisperers, who by their voice engage in spells so that the hearer becomes spellbound and will do as the charmer wishes. Snake charmers would play their instrument, usually a flute or other high-pitched sound and the snake wold be drawn to the charmer, stop about two feet from him, rear its head, and sway in time to the music. Afterward they would lay docile at his feet. (Cyclopaedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, Volume 9, by McClintock & Strong).

In the bible the intended audience was a snake, in modern times it could be any person who uses his voice to cast a spell over his audience. For example, many women attending Obama’s speeches became spell-bound, swooned or fainted at the sound of his voice.

An interpreter of omens, according to the Holman Bible Dictionary, is defined-

The Israelites were prohibited from interpreting omens (Deuteronomy 18:10). Pagan prophesy employed reading of omens (Numbers 24:1, Ezekiel 21:21). As Lord of history, God frustrates the plans of “liars” who interpret omens … The faithful witness of Christians in the face of opposition is likewise an omen or sign pointed to the salvation of believers and the destruction of God’s enemies (Philippians 1:28).

Also many of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices. And a number of those who had practiced magic arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. (Acts 19:18-19)

An interpreter of omens would be the same as a diviner. For example, a person would sacrifice at a pagan temple, and an interpreter would divine the meaning of the way the person’s animal burned, the way the bones lay and such.They would extract secret meaning from these ‘omens.’

Modern examples of ancient pagan/occult practices may be seen today on CBN, when one of the hosts says “I’m getting a word of knowledge from the other side that someone listening is going to be cured of a backache.” Or channeling, which seems to be very popular with Neale Donald Walsch of Conversations with God, Saran Young of Jesus Calling and Beth Moore of When Godly People Do Ungodly Things, whereupon they allow their bodies to be possessed for a time by a spirit which delivers information that the authors translate into a book allegedly full of extra-biblical spiritual insights from the other side. Circle makers are engaging in witchcraft. Prayer labyrinth walkers are doing something pagan, ritualistic, and unbiblical. People like Bill Johnson of Bethel Church and Kim Walker Smith and Beth Moore and many others who say they have entertained God Himself or Jesus in other dimensions through astral travel or visions, and returned with information or predictions to give the body of believers are diviners, witches, soothsayers, fortune tellers. Inviting conjuring glory clouds, gold dust falling, feathers drifting down is nothing more than people practicing wizardry.

Source Pixabay free photos

I have written about these practitioners of the demonic occult before, and we can take no pleasure in knowing that though God’s hand has mercifully stayed their execution, eventually they will face Him and the consequences of their sins. Saul did. Ahab did. Jezebel did. Ahaziah did. I am sorry for these people that they will more than likely be one of the many saying on His Day, “Lord, Lord did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ (Matthew 7:22). And He will say to them depart from m, I never knew you…

However in returning to the 2 Kings passage, let’s turn from the practitioners to looking at Ahazia’s followers. His subjects, army men whom Ahaziah sent to meet Prophet Elijah to hear Elijah’s message.

Then the king sent to him a captain of fifty men with his fifty. He went up to Elijah, who was sitting on the top of a hill, and said to him, “O man of God, the king says, ‘Come down.’” 10But Elijah answered the captain of fifty, “If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty.” Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty. (2 Kings 1:9-10)

Pulpit Commentary:

Now, Ahaziah, the son of the wicked Jezebel, had challenged Jehovah to a trial of strength by first ignoring him, and then sending a troop of soldiers to arrest his prophet. Was Elijah to succumb without an effort, or was he to vindicate the majesty and honor of Jehovah?

This happened again, so that 100 men, followers of Ahaziah were consumed.

Phil Johnson:

But Elijah’s fire from heaven was meant by God as a public display of divine vindication, and a public judgment against an evil regime that sat on Israel’s throne, opposing Jehovah and all He stood for. Such extreme wickedness called for a breathtaking, awe-inspiring judgment.

The judgment fell upon Ahaziah but it also fell on Ahaziah’s followers, whose who followed the king, supported the king, and were an arm of the king in evil deeds.

But the third company of 50 men acted different than their predecessors.

Again the king sent the captain of a third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up and came and fell on his knees before Elijah and entreated him, “O man of God, please let my life, and the life of these fifty servants of yours, be precious in your sight. (2 Kings 1:13)

Here the men have an attitude not of command but of submission. Phil Johnson:

But the third group of soldiers is a reminder that “God . . . gives grace to the humble” (James 4:6; 1 Peter 5:5). God’s mercies are never exhausted, and those who humble themselves before Him and confess their sins can always find mercy.

In today’s Age of Grace, I am not saying that Beth Moore or Sarah Young or any of the modern occult practitioners will be consumed by fire. Jesus came not to destroy but to save. It is a different age. Final judgement is coming and until then, His mercies are manifold and opportunities for repentance are many. The same is true for these “teachers'” followers. Those who participate in their evil deeds, who buy Beth Moore books hoping to gain insights into the knowledge of God apart from the bible, or listen to Kim Walker Smith’s visions about Jesus apart from the bible, or believe CBN’s ‘word of knowledge’ are participating by proxy with the practitioners’ occult evil deeds.

The first two groups of fifty men believed the king to be the highest authority and took to arrest the man of God. The third group of fifty men believed Elijah as the proxy for the highest authority and submitted to God.

God always looks favorably on humility and repentance. He looks unfavorably to the proud and stiff-necked.

Do not practice divination-by-proxy by following those who practice it. If you have been doing so, if you repent, God gives grace to the humble. Amanda Bowers repented, publicly, of her Beth Moore and Henry Blackaby following.

Harold Camping, predicter of the end of the world by specific date (fortune telling), did.

Sunny Shell did, too, not so much for following a diviner but publicly repented for something else.

You don’t have to repent publicly if you haven’t taught anything publicly to be repenting of, but the glory here is pointing to several real and recent examples of where the Spirit showed these people the error of their ways and in repenting gave glory to Him, just as the third group of 50 soldiers did. The idea is that God awaits a contrite heart, a seeking heart, a submissive heart. He is a great God who is literally a consuming fire -to the men of Ahaziah- but he is a loving Father to His children who seek  to practice not occultism, but righteousness.

Discerning Beth Moore and Joyce Meyer’s discussion on "Enjoying Everyday Life" about "unity"

On August 18, 2014 I published an essay regarding the joining of Beth Moore and Joyce Meyer on Meyer’s television program, “Enjoying Everyday Life”. Moore and Meyer, along with friend Christine Caine, had tweeted excitedly about Moore’s interview on Meyer’s program and upcoming broadcast of that interview. The topic was “unity.”

Most discerning Christians know and understand that Meyer is a false teacher. She does not preach the same Jesus as revealed in the bible. Some discerning folks know and understand that Moore is also false, but many more were until lately reluctant to declare her so, instead of being just wayward, misguided, or temporarily mistaken.

Wheat or tare? Emmer wheat, Persian, darnel?
A skilled eye can tell. Public domain

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-18)

It takes time for fruit to ripen. And so Moore’s has ripened to the point where we can now detect whether her fruit is bad or good. For the record, it’s bad.

When Moore joined Meyer on Enjoying Everyday Life, it was another nail in the coffin, so to speak.

The actual program aired yesterday, October 31. It is currently available here.

I watched it, and here is a review of the program.

Meyer opened the show by saying “Today we’re going to talk about unity and peace and getting along, what could be accomplished if we could all get along and work together? How can we avoid allowing our differences to hinder us in bringing the gospel to a lost and hurting world?”

Meyer included Moore’s bio in her opening introduction, saying in part, “She ministers to women of all faith backgrounds. She has a heart for unity in the body of Christ and a vision to reach women of all denominations.”

This sounds very good, and is actually fairly biblical – unless you know that Moore includes Catholics as a regular Christian denomination. This fact is not stated in the video.

Joyce Meyer gave a personal anecdote to start, beginning the discussion of unity as unity within the home. Meyer said she has learned to “Keep the strife out of your life. I’ve discovered Jesus works in an atmosphere of peace, not turmoil and anger. What have you discovered [Beth Moore] along these lines in your walk with God?”

For those who may be anticipating an essay full of biblical debunkings of plainly heretical or false statements either or both ladies made during the interview, you will be disappointed. They made no outward heretical or false statements, except the one above and perhaps one other.

Rather, they alluded to things, they skirted issues, they were cloaked and guarded, they were non-specific; so that if one was unaware of the previous contexts in which they taught, or previous situations in which they had been called to account, nothing untoward seemed to be said. This is even more dangerous than plainly speaking heresy, because satan is subtle. (Genesis 3:1)

This will be a discernment lesson on how to be discerning not with what a false teacher says, but on what a false teacher does NOT say. False teachers have to be right some of the time. Even a broken watch is right twice ever 24 hours.

As for the ridiculous opener from Meyer stating that Jesus worked in an atmosphere of peace, it can be plainly seen from scripture that Meyer is totally wrong.

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. (Matthew 10:34-3).

Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. (Luke 12:51)

The “atmosphere” in which Jesus worked was filled with anguish, strife, perplexity, anger, and death. The Pharisees tried to kill Jesus a number of times. They even tried to kill Lazarus. (John 12:10). Even though Jesus healed the terrible demoniac the Gadarenes were all so afraid of, they asked Jesus  to leave town! Meyer’s assertion is biblically unfounded and patently ridiculous.

The first part of the discussion the two women had was about their own coming to terms with how to biblically nurture peace and unity within the home, as wives. Moore said that she harangued her husband (who had come from “a different background spiritually” and “accepted Christ” when he and Beth were dating) to go to church, and it was when she prayed and left it to Jesus that her husband started coming around. She said that she stopped trying to control him and quit trying to change him and began respecting the man God had sent to her life. Meyer said the same, that when she concentrated on being a godly wife instead of trying to change her husband, peace reigned in the home. These are good thoughts and actions for women to take. I agreed with them.

The second part of the interview was when the two women began to discuss unity in the body of Christ. However, they never defined the body of Christ. We know from following Moore that Moore considers Catholics part of the body of Christ. A person who came in cold to the broadcast or was otherwise unaware of this belief of Moore’s would never know this.

After the break Meyer asked, “How can we have more unity in the Body of Christ? Or even unity within one church?”

A good question. There is nothing wrong with and everything right with unity among the brothers. 1 Corinthians 1:10 makes an appeal for unity among the brothers. Psalm 133:1 promises blessings for those who dwell in unity.

Moore replied: “Even the topic of unity causes division! Disunity is not the heart of Christ, it is the will of God to be unified.”

Sometimes the topic of unity does indeed cause division, lol. However neither woman biblically defined unity. Meyer said that though she married a Lutheran and was involved in the Lutheran church for years, and Moore is a Baptist, and they might not agree on “every little point of doctrine” they would still consider themselves loving sisters in the faith.

There was only vague talk of denominations, but no declaration of the biblical standard under which someone would be considered in the body of Christ.

Here is where they strayed from the center line of biblical truth, though. Meyer said even though she might disagree with Moore over doctrine,

“I agree with your heart and your spirit and with your teaching in the Body of Christ. People disagree over little things.”

Doctrine isn’t a little thing.

Moore replied, “The witness of our disunity is deplorable. Throw down those denominational lines. It is insulting to Christ to be separate. … We love the same Jesus. We love the same scriptures. … Even if we did not have that in common, if we could say our salvation is found in Christ if He died and rose again and how to be saved and Jesus sits at right hand of God, then that is my sister, my brother.” “I would serve anywhere and anybody even if they didn’t have close to the same belief system.”

And here is the danger. Mormons claim Jesus is the source of salvation and that He died and rose again and is sitting at the right hand of the Father. So do Jehovah’s Witnesses. So do Catholics. Their discussion alluded to the fact that we must be united at the expense of doctrine. They intimated that we must have harmony with anyone who simply claims Jesus. Even if they “don’t have close to the same belief system.”

So one wonders, how far afield does one go in order to unite, and where does one draw the line? Does one even draw a line? One could not tell from their discussion. The bible is clear, there MUST be divisions. There must not be an unequal yoking in service. Neither woman made that distinction which of course is totally unhelpful. The statement of Moore’s that she would serve alongside anyone even if they don’t have close to the same belief system is unbiblical. 2 Corinthians 6:14 says,

Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?

There are supposed to be divisions along doctrinal lines. It is what makes us Christians. The women taught during their discussion that the only doctrinal line is whether someone mumbles the magic password: ‘Jesus’ and that’s it. The Pope invokes Jesus. Muslims invoke Jesus. Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, even Presbyterian USA denomination invoke Jesus. But it is not the same Jesus.

There are many who “claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.” (Titus 1:16)

Good fruit? Bad fruit? Worm in fruit? Inspect before ingesting!

Over the years, both Meyer and Moore have made unbiblical statements, and they have been soundly criticized for it. Neither woman likes that. For a while the pair discussed rebukes they’ve received and they condemned these rebukes as disunity within the body. Using cloaked and non-specific language, Meyer said,

“How can we possibly say we love one another if all we do is find fault and differences and be judgmental and critical and say things about people when we have no knowledge of what they’re talking about? I know of you, I know your reputation, but I don’t know YOU yet, in order for that to happen time has to be spent together. It’s unfair for people to have an opinion when they haven’t spent time. People have so many opinions they don’t know anything about me or even you and they know nothing about. They don’t know me at all. They’ve never asked me a question. They think something that is uninformed and they pass it along from person to person. God doesn’t agree with me about everything but we have a good relationship.”

The context for her comment was that people see her on TV or read her books or see something she said and are critical of it and she believes this unfair. Why is this unfair, according to Meyer? Meyer used the verse from 1 Thessalonians 5:12 Amplified Bible, which says,

Now also we beseech you, brethren, get to know those who labor among you [recognize them for what they are, acknowledge and appreciate and respect them all]—your leaders who are over you in the Lord and those who warn and kindly reprove and exhort you.

Her point was that unless one has “gotten to know” her, they cannot and should not reprove her. Of course, the standard translations do not translate it “get to know.” They all say, honor, or respect, or acknowledge or appreciate or know or recognize. The commentaries explain:

Matthew Henry: The people should honour and love their ministers, because their business is the welfare of mens’ souls. And the people should be at peace among themselves, doing all they can to guard against any differences. But love of peace must not make us wink at sin.

Meyer’s statement is even more ridiculous considering that she is NOT submitted to a pastor and does NOT attend a church where a pastor could get to know her and rebuke her if differences in doctrine arose. The only church she ever attended was a Lutheran church for a few short years, then shortly switched to a non-denominational church where she taught a bible class, and then became associate pastor. We know from the bible that women pastors are unbiblical. When her class grew large, she quit the church and founded her own ministry, first on radio then took it to TV. Her statement about getting to know someone and spending time before criticizing was hypocritical in the extreme. Why? She has insulated herself from being able to be gotten to personally, and therefore has added a barrier over which no one would ever be able to reach in order to even begin to criticize. A neat trick. (Source below)

We command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you stay apart from every brother who leads an unruly life, not according to the tradition which you received from us.” (2 Thessalonians 3:6) If you have someone in your church who is teaching error, you cannot have unity with that individual. If you have someone who is leading an unruly or sinful life, you cannot have fellowship with that individual. So what we’re talking about here is the pursuit of the true unity of the Spirit, that belongs to those who surround the truth, and affirm it, and who live godly lives. ~John MacArthur

Moore agreed with Meyer. She said, “I get weary at things taken out of context, that people have quoted me about…even when WE choose to love one another and unite together people in those camps will be disunified. This is the time on the kingdom calendar to come together.”

Matthew 18 and 1 Thessalonians 5:12 have no application to a public leader and his or her public writings. Whatsoever. 

Both women are public teachers, and their teaching must be examined. Both teach unbiblical things, and both have been reproved, rebuked, judged, and criticised. This is biblical. However, in their pursuit of unity, they include themselves under the overly-large doctrinal and denominational umbrella, and claim that to even criticize at all is ‘unfair’ and promotes ‘disunity.’

Moore and Meyer discussing the ‘unfairness’ of being criticized

If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain” (1 Tim. 6:3-5).

Their discussion was pointed about including any and all ‘denominations’ (and we know they mean Catholics) into the fold, disregard doctrinal differences, and claim that love will triumph over all.

Here is what John MacArthur said about the kind of false unity Meyer and Moore promoted:

There is a drive today in evangelicalism – and what a bland term that has become. But there is a drive in evangelicalism for an ecumenism that ignores sound doctrine, that overlooks error, and accepts even what we would deem as heresy. There is a kind of evangelical ecumenism that says we’re all one, and we need to enjoy one another without regard for any of our doctrinal differences. That is a false, and unbiblical, and displeasing unity, if indeed it is unity at all, in the sense that it dishonors and displeases the Lord. There is another kind of striving for unity that wants to disregard iniquity, and embrace everybody no matter whether they are walking in obedience to the Word of God or not, overlooking their sin and their iniquity.

But quite the contrary – the Scripture says if there is someone in your midst, according to Titus chapter 3, teaching error, if there is a heretic there, admonish him once, admonish him twice, and then put him out. He’s forfeited a right to lay any claim to acceptance within that unity.

The discernment lesson comes where we understand that in their televised discussion, Meyer and Moore taught unity through love, but not in doctrine. They failed to mention that there are many scriptures, and the above is just one, where the one preaching a different doctrine is to be put out…not tolerated…called to repent…confronted…handed over to satan. They failed to mark their discussion by presenting scripture on both sides of the scale. The failed to define unity, did not define the Body of Christ, and did not warn listeners about the dangers of overlooking sin and false doctrine. Discernment is about what false teachers say and what false teachers don’t say. That is the true both sides of the scale.

For example, both women talked about Luke 10, where Jesus sent 72 disciples out two by two. They said that if the disciples came to a town and were received, that was good. But it was so peaceful if they were not received because all they had to do is shake the dust off their feet. How peaceful and non-confrontational … but they did not read to the end of the passage, where Jesus said, “I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town.”

Not so peaceful after all, when Jesus said that those who reject Him and His doctrine will be judged more severely than the town that was burned to the ground in fire and brimstone.

Matthew 11:20-23 expounds more:
Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21 “Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths.

Jesus was warning those towns that failure to accept His doctrine and truths by repenting of sin and believing on Him would result in hell and permanent cursing of their town. Jesus was drawing the lines of division: who would be cursed and who would be blessed and which behavior results in both. The townspeople had accepted the miracles but rejected Jesus. Standing with one foot on both sides is not unity. Jesus was all about one or the other. Yet Moore and Meyer taught that love while overlooking doctrinal differences is all one needs to be unified. Nothing could be further from the truth.

In conclusion, Moore and Meyer taught that unity above doctrine was paramount, blindly accepting anyone who says “Jesus” is our duty, serving alongside anyone even if they have a wildly divergent belief system is OK, pursuing peace and love across all denominational lines without regard to the nuts and bolts of a person’s adherence to the bible is a given, and that to criticize one’s doctrine without spending time to get to know them is unfair.

All of the above was cloaked in loving language and even some tears at times. It seemed Christian-y, it was kind of bible-ish. But it wasn’t. It was what they did not say that was the problem.

How can a person know what someone is not saying? Know what the bible says. And listen for the whole story from your teachers.

At the end of the discussion, Moore laid the syrup on Meyer. Moore said,

“I’m astounded at the magnitude of what you’ve done, through God. I asked God how to bless you, Joyce, in my hotel room this morning. I offer you my respect. I offer you my esteem. I say to you, you are a mighty woman of God, you have run a race well.”

This should nail it for those who still may be unsure of Moore’s proclivities. Meyer is an obvious, rank heretic. For Moore to publicly lay on her esteem, respect, and proclaim Meyer a woman of God shows a massive lack of discernment or else a massively pragmatic conscience in unbelief. (2 Peter 2:3).

As an aside, we know that the last few years Moore has been reaching out to Catholics. I got curious as to what the Catholics think of Moore. There are many women Catholic forums and there is often a question from one Catholic woman to another as to the value of Moore’s studies or as a Catholic, whether one should partake of Moore’s studies. The verdict from most forums I scanned? Catholic women see Moore as biblically shallow, overly sentimental, given to emotionalism with not much bible. Their general consensus was that Moore is a motivational speaker but in no way a bible teacher. That is pretty discerning for women who aren’t even saved. Here is what one Catholic woman wrote:

Let me stress, her underlying message seems okay, but her delivery bothers me. She could write some great self-help books from a Christian perspective but her Bible study method is lacking. What bothers me: She comes up with a theory and then searches for scripture to back-up her theory. Seems backwards, but whatever. At the end of lesson 5 she asks everyone to stand up and repeat a pledge/prayer. If I’m going to make a pledge before the Lord I’d like to know what I’m pledging.

Interesting. Would that all women who are genuinely saved be so diligent about who they should follow into studies and so discerning about Beth Moore.

Another lady said Moore taught that,

“The Bible is Complete and Fully Sufficient.” Ironically, she can’t make this point without referencing 8 sources outside scripture.”

One Catholic woman on a forum inquisitive about Moore and whether her study would be profitable for her, a Catholic, said “I looked her up on Google, and found that she is a Southern Baptist speaker. The Statement of Faith of her organization was quite encouraging, as she does not include a “Bible is the Sole Source of Authority” point.”

And that says it all. If a teacher’s statement of faith page encourages people outside the faith, the teacher is doing something wrong. What is NOT there in a person’s teaching is just as important as what is.

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To gain discernment, just ask!

Teach me good discernment and knowledge, For I believe in Your commandments. (Psalms 119:66)

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From a news article about Joyce Meyer from 2003:

It was while at Life Christian that Meyer began one of the more unusual chapters of her early ministry.

In an audiotape series called “How to Fight the Devil and Win,” Meyer recalled how she read a book on freeing people from demons. She saw the book as a revelation from God and began what she called a “deliverance ministry,” much of it out of the family’s home on Codorniz Lane in Fenton.

“I had every person, I think, anywhere within 10 miles who had a demon come knocking at my door wanting deliverance,” she said. “And I was staying up half the night, almost every night, Dave and I were, casting out devils.”

She said she got on people’s backs and rode them “all over the house, with these demons of anger and fear and violence … you know our kids are back there sleeping and we’re in the living room screaming at demons half the night. …

In November 1998, Meyer made the big time with a cover story in Charisma & Christian Life magazine, one of the nation’s leading publications for followers of the charismatic movement. On its cover, the magazine called Meyer “America’s most popular woman minister.”

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For Further Reading:

At what point does one declare a teacher like Beth Moore false? Here’s some help.

John Stackhouse: Why I Criticize in Public

At what point does one declare a teacher like Beth Moore false? Here’s some help.

I fell in love the way you fall asleep: slowly, and then all at once.”
― John Green, The Fault in Our Stars

Isn’t that an evocative and a sweet description of how we fall asleep! I’ve always loved it.

Apostasy is like that. It shows up slowly, then all at once.

In Philemon 1:24, Paul called Demas a fellow worker. By 2 Timothy 4:10, Paul had declared him a friend of the world. There was approximately an 8-10 year span between the two verses.

Judas was never in the faith. For three and a half years, he followed Christ. But unknown to the disciples, Judas held secret sins in his heart, he stole from the group purse, he met with Pharisees…By the end, he sold Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.

Demas and Judas never abandoned the faith, because they never were in it in the first place.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. (1 John 2:19).

A tweet by Joyce Meyer and Beth Moore this week is causing dismay and consternation. I wrote about it here. Here is the tweet:

Beth Moore and also Christine Caine on her Facebook page, confirmed the partnership. The topic of the program series will be “unity,” Moore tweeted. Meyer said on her own Facebook page that they haven’t scheduled the programs for broadcast yet. But that the programs will be on soon.

From Christine Caine’s Facebook page

Since Meyer is well-known heretic who teaches unorthodox and unbiblical doctrines, Moore’s partnership on Meyer’s program has disappointed many. Yet for others who have been sounding the alarm about Beth Moore for many years, (including myself) this comes as NO surprise. We are hopeful that at last, this will be the evidence your church needs to root out FALSE TEACHER Beth Moore from your church.

In Numbers 32:23 we read that our sin will find us out. Can any apostate keep their position hidden forever? Of course, Jesus knows all. He knew Judas was not of the faith, because Jesus sees the heart. He knows what is in a man. (John 2:24). But what about us, who cannot see the heart, but only the fruit?

Apostasy is a funny thing. It is like a chain that keeps lengthening. At which link does a person declare a false teacher false (if they are)?

Public Domain

No sensible person will declare a teacher false after only one link appears. That is not discernment, it is Pharisaical judgment. But how about after four links? It depends on the link. It depends on what they have said or done. If the teacher has said “Jesus never came in the flesh” then that’s good enough, because the 2 John 1:7 declares that people who say that are deceivers and antichrists.

If a person declares that they do not believe in Jesus as the Resurrected Son of God, and are in fact an atheist, as the Christian metal band singer Tim “I was faking faith the whole time” Lambesis said recently, then one need not wait for more links in the chain in order to know they are false.

But what of Beth Moore, who has been on the forefront of the Christian scene teaching and preaching since 1997? At what point in the chain does one say, ‘cut it off, I know she’s false?’ Some said it early and some say it late and others say it not at all.

As Justin Peters said on Brannon Howse’s World View Weekend radio program this week, a person can follow a false teacher for a season. It stands to reason that a false teacher can teach a false doctrine for a season, too, but correct it. That is why we must be vigilant, but not hasty.

For me the final straw that broke the camel’s back moment came when Moore claimed to have been visited by Jesus. Moore said he lifted her into another dimension to see the church as “He” sees it. Moore claimed that during that vision, “Jesus” told her “My Bride is paralyzed by unbelief”. “Jesus” then told Moore to return and teach this new revelation to the church.

Jesus would never say His Bride is unbelieving. To be part of the Bride, one must believe. If one doesn’t believe, they are not the Bride. Moore’s supposed revelation is an internally contradictory statement. And since Jesus doesn’t contradict Himself, it must be Moore who is false.

Others gave the benefit of the doubt for longer periods. And still other things that we could add to the pile of proof, links in the apostasy chain as it were, stayed mostly hidden. Unless one cared to look. I did.

When the bible says to be vigilant (1 Peter 5:8, 1 Corinthians 16:13) it means be vigilant. Observant. Watchful. Once the alarm bell went off about Moore, I listened closely and I researched for evidence. This is so one can either confirm or exonerate.

For example, Non-profit tax returns are public. I read all of the tax returns from Moore’s Living Proof Ministries, as far back as they were available, to 2000. That was how I discovered that Moore donated significant money to Lakewood Church as long ago as ten years.

Or when Moore made a statement that though she travels a lot, that she is a biblical wife and leaves Friday night and is home by Saturday afternoon, thus retaining her stay-at-home status, it hit me wrong. So I researched her schedule. I knew that she had many Living Proof conferences that year, and was on a book tour that year, spent time writing alone in a cabin in the woods, and did weekly TV shows. So I looked through her public calendar, pieced together the weekends, and found the truth was the opposite. But unless one did the research, one would not know she had told a falsehood.

Link by link I built my case.

So, when did Beth Moore’s apostasy show through? For me, early. Others, later. Still others do not have ears to hear, so they don’t remain vigilant. They are not watchful. When does the tip of the iceberg of apostasy show above the surface?

Jude 1:4 says,

For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Unnoticed…Yet at some point, they stumble, their sin shows. They are seen by the discerning. The discerning raise the alarm. Some don’t see it. The wolf remains unnoticed still.

Was it in 1994 when she founded Living Proof Ministries and set herself as President, (and her husband as Vice-President) and claimed on her (2000) IRS tax form that she worked 50 hours a week, yet said in interviews she was a stay at home mom at the same time?

Source: Publicly available IRS tax return for tax year ending 5/2001

Was it in 2003 when she donated $1000 to Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church, for “ministry support?”

Or in 2003 when she described writing her book “When Godly People do Ungodly Things” as having been taken over by a force which wrote the book FOR her? (a process known as automatic writing/channeling the occult/Spiritism)

Or in 2004 when she donated $34,429 to Joel Osteen’s church for “ministry support”?

Was it in 2005 when Moore claimed to have been visited by Jesus, who lifted her into another dimension to see the church through His eyes, at which time He told gave her new revelation- that, and I quote her quoting Jesus, “My Bride is paralyzed by unbelief”, and that Moore was to return to earth and teach this? (Jesus would NEVER say His Bride doesn’t believe, it is an internally contradictory statement!!)

Or in 2006 when Moore participated in a DVD program called “Be Still” and promoted the Catholic mystical practice of contemplative prayer?

Or in 2008, when her pop psychology tainted with faith conditions (legalism) began to show through, when she wrote for example, in her book Looking Up When Life Is Looking Down, that “I believe God has scheduled a time and a way for you to get out of our pit. You’re going to need to show up for the appointment, though.”

Or in 2009 when Moore taught from Deut. directly and blatantly allegorized the passage, twisted it, and made it about ourselves when the verse was clearly about God? (which she does with all her verses in all studies?) [Living Proof Conference, Charlotte NC]

Or again in 2010 when Moore taught a passage from Hebrews in one of her studies and completely allegorized it, twisted it, and made it about ourselves, beginning an obvious pattern of bible eisegesis?

Or in 2011 when her programs on Life Today with James Robison became more about “mistakes” and not sins, and more about pop psychology and earthly desires than honoring God and learning His word? When she said “I believe” more than “The bible says”?

Or in 2012 when at the Georgia Passion conference when she led the youths in the Catholic Mystical practice of Lectio Divina and prayer walking?

Or perhaps 2013 when her language while teaching included much more of “God told me to teach you this” or “I heard God say to me” and taught from her own vain imaginings and visions than the word itself but called it ‘teaching the word’?

Or in 2013 when she praised Catholic Mystic Roma Downey and Word Faith prosperity teacher Victoria Osteen at Lakewood Church during women’s conferences they did together?

Or in 2014 when Moore said “God told her” that there will come an awakening and an outpouring, and that she and others who speak “the genuinely prophetic” will be called false, but not to believe them, the people (us) who will say she is false will be bullies?

Or finally in 2014, when she linked with heretic Joyce Meyer?

Justin Peters is a pastor, teacher, and has been invited by John MacArthur to participate with him in several conferences. Peters teaches discernment. He spoke about the Joyce Meyer/Beth Moore partnership this week. He said in the past he has declared Moore’s teachings bad, her bible hermeneutics terrible, and her approach too casual. He has said she is not qualified to do the things she has been doing. He said he’s urged women to study under other women, like Susan Heck, rather than Moore…but has been hesitant to say outright that she is false. However, this Moore-Meyer link has pushed him over the edge, and unfortunately Moore can be seen to be a wolf. Many others are finally saying the same.

Those of us with the gift of discernment who spot it early, it is often a mournful time. It’s hard to be practically the only ones saying “watch out, Moore is false” not because we want everyone to see we’re right, but because we can see the wolves carrying off the lambs and the sheep! It hurts to see women impacted negatively by false teachers. It is a grief to see them absorb and adopt the false hermeneutics Moore teaches, false approaches to the bible that these women carry with them. It is a pattern of destruction that Moore embeds, which women then use as the filter to see God’s word and His attributes. The Spirit in His will gives gifts, one of them is discernment. If you have a discerning person in your church, please understand it is a gift from Jesus, not a harassment to torture you in your love for certain teachers.

“Plate facing page 10, An Argosy of Fables” by Paul Bransom,
New York: Frederick A. Stokes Company. 1921. Wiki CC

You would not believe how wide Meyer’s sphere of influence is. Meyer’s social media influence is huge too. Meyer has 7.6 million followers on Facebook.

Moore is extremely popular. Women trust Moore and trust what she says, so when Moore promotes and endorses books like Jesus Calling, teachings like heretic Meyer’s, and practices like direct revelation as normative, women believe it. Then women get defeated because they aren’t hearing directly from God, they aren’t climbing ‘out of their pits’ in their own strength, and they aren’t having visions where all these lively experiences happen. “Why Beth Moore and Not Me?” Moore’s sphere of falsity widens ever larger, but the more women trust her the more they are entrapped into sin and bondage.

Justin Peters said this week in an interview with Brannon Howse on World View Weekend, “If the SBC had a pope, it would be Beth Moore.”

Moore and Meyer are the two most followed and best selling women bible ‘teachers’ in Christendom. In partnering, they have become the face of falsity for most women who claim to love Jesus. It is a dangerous time.

You might be familiar with the good Christian movies Flywheel, Facing the Giants, Fireproof, and Courageous. They were made by the Kendrick Brothers at their home church in South Georgia, Sherwood Baptist. Did you know that the Kendrick Brothers are now making a fifth movie, but have have struck out on their own, apart from Sherwood church? Their new movie is about prayer…and did you know Priscilla Shirer AND Beth Moore appear in it?

Discernment is a never-ending process. It is important to be vigilant! (1 Peter 5:8, 1 Corinthians 16:13)

Why am I saying all this? Because women in our church have to know. They have to be told that Moore, Meyer, etc are destructive to their walk. We have to gently approach our sisters, to tell them. We ask the husbands and the leaders to be attentive to discernment issues. It seems to me that the noose is tightening and that false teachers and false doctrines truly abound.

Because of these verses:

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. (2 Peter 2:1)

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1)

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Further Reading:

Here is a tremendous article from Dan Phillips, called Red Lights. He is referring to the red light warnings we can see in teachers or pastors who are not yet false but heading that way. He listed 24 of them, with scripture attached to each. Red Lights